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Offline dwcc

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best place to sell Angus Bulls
« on: October 14, 2013, 05:32:31 PM »
Was wanting to find some sales to put some registered Angus bulls in this coming spring. I have 15 bulls that will be yearlings in the spring. They are more for the commercial cattleman. All out of a.I. bulls. Not wanting to give them away, but the few I know in Ohio (where I live) don't bring much over market except for the expo. I am willing to travel if its worth the travel. I guess I am looking for something in the 3,500 rage b, because they are good, with good pedigrees. If anyone knows of any cosignment sales please let me know.
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Offline Freddy

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Re: best place to sell Angus Bulls
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 10:00:55 AM »
The market is pretty well saturated with ANGUS bulls ,back here in Nebraska there are commercial guys with no registered cows selling ANGUS BULLS for as much or more than the registered ANGUS breeders who pay for all the genetic defect tests and the EPD'S ...   Group of 230 CHAROLAIS  X steers over 600 lbs  brought over 1220.00 dollars a head a couple weeks ago ....Angus or black calves also selling well ,will be a lot of Angus bulls left over from last year in this area ....Heard of a large group of LIMOUSIN X out of jersey cows making CAB qualifications, good thing there is shortage of cattle ......

Offline linnettejane

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Re: best place to sell Angus Bulls
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2013, 11:25:32 AM »
don't really know of any sales to recommend, but it couldn't hurt to advertise them in the classifieds sections here on steerplanet....its free!  list each one individually with a couple pics and pedigree info...you might be surprised!
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Offline -XBAR-

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Re: best place to sell Angus Bulls
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2013, 12:03:49 PM »
For $3,500 - I'd expect a well known pedigree in front of their name to assist in marketing the next generation.  Check out some Angus bull sale averages from WELL KNOWN breeders around the country.  I'd say $3,500 avg is in line w/ what they're getting.  Personally, if you can get twice what the animal would bring through the ring, I think you're more than getting adequately compensated.  JMO though  (thumbsup)
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Offline cowboy_nyk

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Re: best place to sell Angus Bulls
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2013, 08:21:00 AM »
Don't let the "there's too many Angus out there" crowd get to you.  If your bulls are good, people will come and people will pay for them.  The only thing the overpopulation of Angus cattle is going to do is weed out the subpar cattle.

As for selling your bulls, we routinely sell 30+ bulls out of our yard privately and average around $3500.00.  We pre-price everything and advertise through local classifieds, breed magazines, and online.  We feel it gives us more control over price and far less overhead than a sale.  You need to be prepared to carry over a couple bulls in case they don't sell though.

XBAR - As for the comment about getting twice what the animal would bring for the ring: Do you mean as a commercial calf?  I won't sell any purebred bull for less than $2500 and generally I put my lowest price at $2800.  If the bull won't sell for that, I'll happily turn him into hamburger.  I think half of the problem in the purebred business is people flooding the market with cheap, below average bulls.  With all the work of performance testing, registration, AI, promotion, semen testing, and guaranteeing the bulls I can't stand to see guys selling bulls for $2000 or $1800.  All that does is train the commercial guys that they can find cheaper bulls if they don't worry about quality.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: best place to sell Angus Bulls
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2013, 04:25:11 PM »


XBAR - As for the comment about getting twice what the animal would bring for the ring: Do you mean as a commercial calf?  I won't sell any purebred bull for less than $2500 and generally I put my lowest price at $2800.  If the bull won't sell for that, I'll happily turn him into hamburger.  I think half of the problem in the purebred business is people flooding the market with cheap, below average bulls.  With all the work of performance testing, registration, AI, promotion, semen testing, and guaranteeing the bulls I can't stand to see guys selling bulls for $2000 or $1800.  All that does is train the commercial guys that they can find cheaper bulls if they don't worry about quality.
Yes, I meant as a commercial calf through your local sale barn.  If a weaned grade calf will bring $900 of his mom, getting $1800 for the same quality calf w/ papers is being compensated pretty substantially for your AI cost.   If you're averaging $3,500- I think its fair to say that you've either made a name for yourself through producing quality bulls for YEARS- or that you spend a grip on promotional cost which I would think those cost should be subtracted before you solicit a sale average to a newbie.  Either way, you're doing something right.   
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Offline dwcc

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Re: best place to sell Angus Bulls
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2013, 05:47:09 PM »
Thanks for everyone's input
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Offline Mark H

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Re: best place to sell Angus Bulls
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2013, 11:56:46 PM »
XBAR,

N7 stock farms is a substantial commercial cow/calf and purebred breeder. They have been in the Angus business for around 12 years.  They successful in the show ring and in bull sales.  To give you a hint of the quality of bulls they produce check out the Cattlemens Classic bulls sale.  The N7 lots start at lot 35: http://www.charolaisbanner.com/cat09/cclassic/cattlemans%20classic.pdf
Something for Gerald to consider:  Getting $ 3,500 for a yearling bull in Manitoba is much easier than getting $ 2,000 for a similar bull in many parts of the United States.  Many producers where cow/calf operations are small sidelines will not pay much over commercial price for a bull .  The buyers just don't see the payoff.  Purebred breeder of all breeds have to do some homework here to show what a good bull can do in a commercial operation.

Offline cowboy_nyk

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Re: best place to sell Angus Bulls
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2013, 09:51:12 AM »
Haha i sometimes forget that we live in the world of "google" and people can look you up at any time.  Yes we have been around for a while (bought our first angus in 1998, Charolais in the late '70s) and we have had our share of success showing and selling.  P.s. that catalogue is old! That was the last year we sold in that sale.  Selling Charolais and Angus in the same sale was not a good fit.  As for our costs now, we probably spend about $2500 per year on advertising.  I attend shows as much as possible but they generally pay for themselves via prize money.

You'll have to forgive me because as you said, I am not familiar with your market.  Here, a mature cull bull is worth at least $0.85 cents.  So if someone is disposing of a ~2000lb mature bull they have $1700 in cash to invest in a new bull.  It seems insane for me to sell him a new bull, complete with papers and guarantees for $1800 doesn't it?

To further prove my point, many of my bull customers are selling their calves straight off the cow and averaging near $1100 this year.  In this marketplace a $2500 should be a cheap bull!  I agree that it falls on us purebred breeders to show how a good bull can make the difference.  Their will always be people out there who want cheap bulls regardless of facts.  Just like their will be purebred breeders who ride on the coattails of others to get their bulls sold.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: best place to sell Angus Bulls
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2013, 01:22:52 PM »


You'll have to forgive me because as you said, I am not familiar with your market.  Here, a mature cull bull is worth at least $0.85 cents.  So if someone is disposing of a ~2000lb mature bull they have $1700 in cash to invest in a new bull.  It seems insane for me to sell him a new bull, complete with papers and guarantees for $1800 doesn't it?

To further prove my point, many of my bull customers are selling their calves straight off the cow and averaging near $1100 this year.  In this marketplace a $2500 should be a cheap bull!  I agree that it falls on us purebred breeders to show how a good bull can make the difference.  Their will always be people out there who want cheap bulls regardless of facts.  Just like their will be purebred breeders who ride on the coattails of others to get their bulls sold.

Perhaps some of the confusion is: at what age bull you're referring to?
From the catalog, it looks like your riding the coattails of SAVs, Boyd, TC, and Connealy's pretty heavily.  A yearling 1200lb bull through the sale would bring close to $1500.   Pricing this bull at $3k as a purebred w/ papers wouldn't be "cheap."
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Offline Mark H

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Re: best place to sell Angus Bulls
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2013, 07:12:15 PM »
I don't de[emd on the web to know the reputation of Angus breeders. Dory another SAV Wallstreet user mentioned your herd as an up and coming herd.  I have seen more information here and there and agree.  You seem to be doing alright with out a website.  still it might be good idea to get one.
I used that example knowing it was old but it gives the board members here an idea of the quality of cattle you produce and why you can get prices they can only dream about.
XBAR,
When you say " A yearling 1200lb bull through the sale would bring close to $1500." is that run through an auction market  as beef?  When you buy a bull you are buying much more than that.  Your bull battery is half your herd and the future. That $1500 is salvage value.  What is the worth of improved weaning weights or maternal traits?  If a bull increases your number of pounds per cow exposed by 40 pounds (conservative given the breeds and bulls available) on say 30 head average over 3 years of ownership (again conservative) that bull has given an extra 3600 LB of calf to sell.  at that rate a $ 4,000 bull still gives a good return on your investment.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: best place to sell Angus Bulls
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2013, 07:51:23 PM »
Yes, I meant as beef. $3k would be 100% more than that. 

Specific environments only allow for so much growth.  In investing in 'Growth Potential' is a mute point if that potential exceeds inputs offered.

The last shorthorn bull I bought was $5500. The M6 Char bull I bought prior was more.  I'm not advocating buying 'cheap' bulls- I'm fully aware of the value added concept.  At the same time, you can buy a substantially better than average bull of any breed nearly anywhere in the country for $3k.  They might carry a no-name prefix, but in terms of quality, there's fine bulls out there in that price range.  My whole point was that as a 'no name' purebred breeder, if you can average twice what you would selling grade cattle, you're doing good.



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Offline Mark H

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Re: best place to sell Angus Bulls
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2013, 08:40:37 PM »
XBAR,

Enough breeder have left the business that bargin, high quality bulls are tough to find.  In the eastern ans south eastern U. S. you might find some cheaper bulls but then they would have to travel a long ways to get where they are needed.  I looked at the pedigree of the M6 bull you bought had good everything and great EPDs,  That bull today would be $ 4,500 as a yearling no matter who raised him and if we was out  of reputation breeder add at least $3,000 minimum.  In fact you can sell old herd bulls for good money right now-just as much as for a good two year old in most cases.  Given how you like good cattle I don't think you would be happy settling for a $ 3,000 mid pack bull given the compromises you would have to make on growth, calving ease, confirmation etc.

Offline cowboy_nyk

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Re: best place to sell Angus Bulls
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2013, 11:47:43 AM »


Perhaps some of the confusion is: at what age bull you're referring to?
From the catalog, it looks like your riding the coattails of SAVs, Boyd, TC, and Connealy's pretty heavily.  A yearling 1200lb bull through the sale would bring close to $1500.   Pricing this bull at $3k as a purebred w/ papers wouldn't be "cheap."

I agree.  $3000 is a good price and not a "cheap bull".  Cheap is $2000.

Is using AI to bring in top genetics referred as "riding on coattails"?  My reference to "riding on coattails" earlier was the breeders selling unregistered/poor bulls and hoping for big money because Angus is the flavor of the day (or any other breed for that matter).  To me, any breeder participating in the breed's registry and performance testing program and using good genetics is worthy of selling some good bulls for good money, whether they are a "no-name" or not.  That being said, they need to be good bulls to get any sort of attention.  Average just won't cut it if you haven't made a name for yourself yet.

 

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