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Offline zangus

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2008, 07:00:33 AM »
Thanks DL,  I checked and the last 2 bulls I have used are descendants of 1680.  I have to hope CA Future Direction and Integrity are clean.

Please keep us updated

Offline kanshow

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2008, 02:23:49 PM »
This will potentially affect many who have used certain SimAngus bulls too.   That is a huge commercial market.  I wonder how/if the ASA will react. 
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Offline KYsteer

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2008, 08:04:15 PM »
This is one of those things that I think can be attributed to greed.  Not necessarily the bad kind, but instead of developing new lines of cattle that excel in carcass traits breeders just linebred the 1680 bull and anytime linebreeding occurs recessive traits such as this one are exaggerated.  I am not being critical of the people that used the 1680 bull,  but genetics can be like investing money.  You should always have your investments diversified so as to not lose everything(Enron employees).  If you used the bull or his descendants in small doses then you should be fine, but if you built your herd around his offspring and did not outcross, then get ready for a bumpy ride.

Offline aj

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2008, 04:56:49 PM »
I wonder if with all these defects surfacing if linebreeding won't be a part of seedstocks testing program. If you have a line of great cattle linebreed the damn things. Then you can test for problems before you 178 cows flushed and a entire program built around the line. It just makes good business sense. I am surprised at the aaa handling of the situation however the breed is to big to keep secrets. In one sick thought at least th and pha are a positive factor in developing the look. Whereas dwarfism and marble bone and curly calf really don't. I sometimes wonder if doc b, and the vet out in Indiana or whereever who wondered about the defect calves(I can't think of his name-he et's) and the people who brought the th deal out in the open....kinda opened the doors to educating people on genetic defects. I think a book ought to be wrote about this stuff for genetic classes and breeders. People like dragon lady who literally got beat to death over the disscussion of defects need a pat on the back.Who are the other players?Bolze,Stefan,board members of what..4 breed associations?Hunsley, internet chat rooms. I know the th deal was a life lesson I learned from not really caring to understanding problem to tracing problem in my herd. In some ways the curly hair calf deal will be bigger because the Angus are such a force in the beef industry. I heard about the curly haired calf deal on a radio show today(agri-talk or something like that) Ken Roots old show.(Who by the way I shared a whiskey with after he gave a talk at the FHSU block and bridle banquet in say 1983 or so).I will never forget his words..."make it strong". Sorry Ken. ;D
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Offline knabe

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2008, 06:38:18 PM »
I wonder if with all these defects surfacing if linebreeding won't be a part of seedstocks testing program. If you have a line of great cattle linebreed the damn things. Then you can test for problems before you 178 cows flushed and a entire program built around the line. It just makes good business sense. I am surprised at the aaa handling of the situation however the breed is to big to keep secrets. In one sick thought at least th and pha are a positive factor in developing the look. Whereas dwarfism and marble bone and curly calf really don't.

what would really suck is if some of the carcass results were part of a cascade of events of marble bone in the heterozygous state.

linebreeding is the quickest way to discover defects and get rid of them if no test is available.  the problem is, that most breeders don't have the numbers like in the past to deal with this.  they only have numbers to deal with it and it's positive traits.

what is the profit margin of a linebred tested bull versus one that isn't.  until there is, most people won't linebreed for defect elimination purposes.
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Offline Rocky Hill

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2008, 08:11:29 PM »
This will potentially affect many who have used certain SimAngus bulls too.   That is a huge commercial market.  I wonder how/if the ASA will react. 
.   


I got an email about it from the ASA a couple days ago that warned of it. They sent a bunch of information:
http://simmental.org/enews/lt.php?id=N0UFAlZTAEoGVE0FAA0B
It's the same thing that was already posted here though.

That's pretty scary.  :o
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 08:15:18 PM by Rocky Hill »

Offline aj

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2008, 01:58:11 PM »
I heard people disscusing the defect at the coop coffee table today.
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Offline DL

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2008, 04:05:00 PM »
The following letter was recently posted on the Gardiner Angus website (emphasis added)

Dear Customers & Friends:
We have been asked many questions and attempted to respond to the concerns of our fellow beef producers who may be affected by the recent information released by the American Angus Association regarding Curly Calf Syndrome (CCS). In an effort to continue an open line of communication with our customers, we are providing responses to the questions most commonly asked by those contacting us.

Q: Have you had calves born at GAR with this defect?
A: Approximately 2,000 calves are born each year at Gardiner Angus Ranch and our ET Cooperator herds. Since 1991 we have produced about 27,000 calves. During this time period we have had 11 stillborn, anatomically-defective cases in our records. This would represent only .04% of the calves born in that period. Descriptions and/or samples from these calves were submitted to Dr. Horst Leipold (Kansas State University, AAA advisor on genetic abnormalities) in the 1990s and more recently to Dr. Dave Steffen (University of Nebraska, Dr. Leipolds student who subsequently became AAAs advisor). Six of these calves had no Precision in their pedigree. Dr. Leipold advised us that the anatomically-defective calves born on our ranch were the result of a variety of possible causes including: environmental factors (e.g., plants, insects, soil toxicity, etc), disease (viruses) or that some might have a genetic component. He advised us to continue recording and reporting abnormal calves and we have done so.This calving season we had one such calf and submitted the calf and samples to Dr. Steffen.

Q: When you did first hear about Curly Calf Syndrome?
A: Dr. Leipold referred to CCS as Arthrogryposis. We first heard this term from him when we submitted our first case in the fall of 1991. More recently, we became aware when a small number of calves born dead with bent and twisted spines were reported to the Angus Association in March 2007. However, it was not until August 12th, 2008 when Dr. Jonathon Beever visited GAR that we were informed he suspected an autosomal recessive gene was the cause of CCS. During his visit Dr. Beever asked for and received semen samples from some of our bulls in order to expedite his research. We were only informed Curly Calf Syndrome appeared to be caused by a simple recessive gene, traced from GAR Precision, a few days before the Angus Association released its report on September 17th.

Q: Has there been other diseases caused by a mutant autosomal recessive gene in cattle?
A: In fact a similar autosomal recessive disease was reported in Holstein cattle in 1992. Bovine leukocyte adhesion deficiency (BLAD) in Holstein cattle is an autosomal recessive disease characterized by recurrent bacterial infections, delayed wound healing and stunted growth. Affected cattle die at an early age due to the persistent infections. The carrier frequency of the BLAD gene among U.S. Holstein cattle reached approximately 15% among active artificial insemination bulls and 8% among cows in the early 1990s. The dairy industry quickly developed a diagnostic test to identify BLAD carriers. Because the DNA test was highly accurate and relatively inexpensive to perform, the A.I. organizations were able to test and eliminate many sons of
BLAD carrier bulls, thus minimizing any potential negative impact BLAD carriers might have had on the breed. The control ofBLAD in the general population of Holstein cattle was done by publishing the genotypes and avoiding the mating between BLAD carriers. That strategy dramatically reduced the frequency of BLAD carriers. Similar strategies used in Poland, a country where the frequency of the BLAD mutant carriers was 15% among young bulls, has reduced the incidence of BLAD carriers to 0.8% in 12 years. Obviously, the breeding strategies used to reduce the frequency of BLAD in Holstein cattle would make a good model for efficient control of another genetic disorder mediated by a single recessive mode of inheritance.

Q: What will be Gardiner Angus Ranchs Plan of Action?
A: For the past 30 years, every animal sold by GAR has been fully guaranteed. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE. Every bull in our fall sale and every bull and female in our Spring 2009 sale will be covered by the same guaranteeperiod! If you buy a bull or cow from us and are not satisfied, we will replace it. As for our plans at GAR, we are cooperating fully with the American Angus Association and as soon as a DNA test is available, we
will test every animal on the ranch and the results will be made available to all our customers. Our goal will be to eliminate the recessive gene for CCS from our herd by selective mating and testing of offspring. Gardiner Angus Ranch has always used science, technology and data to breed better cattle. We will continue to do so. We will aggressively move forward to produce cattle that are superior for the economically important traits and free of this recessive gene. It will be important for all of us to remember to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Science, data and technology will allow us all to be successful in breeding better cattle.

FINAL NOTE: We encourage the reporting of all calves possibly affected by CCS. For further information contact Don Laughlin, Director of Member Services, AAA by e-mail (dlaughlin@angus.org) or 816/383-5140. Note: if possible, please retain the calf and Don Laughlin will make arrangements to have it shipped to Dr. David Steffen in Lincoln, Nebraska at the Associations expense.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 04:10:35 PM by DL »
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Offline farwest

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2008, 04:57:07 PM »
sounds like the presidential debate last night, so????????????    sounds like there will still be assless carrier bulls sold after the test, just gonna be honest about it and maybe stick them in to some naive cattlemen,   that's what i read.

Offline JbarL

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2008, 05:48:43 PM »
 far west....        unlike the presidetial debate  which lacked substance and timeless on all fronts, .....as far as being an "all  eyes on topic". ...we waited so long for....we all just had to see....80 million people......c calf syndrom is a  " all eyes on" topic for many here  as well.....i applaude gar....family/staff/ and all directly involved with a ......very "timely"......." fact to date/ information " "sharing"  piece of sharing... this has been an " all eyes on topic " for many as well of late........i appreciate the help.... to me ......it sets the bar for one of the classiest information sharieng's  i've recieved here to date..............jbarl     (welcome)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 10:55:49 PM by JbarL »

Offline Telos

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2008, 05:53:50 PM »
Was talking to Knabe earlier today, but got disconnected after a lengthy conversation. Sorry Knabe,  left the phone off the hook. Had too much to do.

Why is it when we put selection pressures on specific traits, these defects often surface? There's something to be said about optimum and maximum. It appears the evolution for genetic improvement is not something that can be done overnight and probably takes longer then our average life time. Are we hurrying the process?
Jack Jabara

Offline JbarL

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2008, 07:25:31 PM »
Was talking to Knabe earlier today, but got disconnected after a lengthy conversation. Sorry Knabe,  left the phone off the hook. Had too much to do.

Why is it when we put selection pressures on specific traits, these defects often surface? There's something to be said about optimum and maximum. It appears the evolution for genetic improvement is not something that can be done overnight and probably takes longer then our average life time. Are we hurrying the process?



we may be hurrying it ....or we may have already passed it........ or did we llet  it pass  by us unoticed?.......  is it right around the corner....or just down the street...?          maybe genetics just isnt used to bein' fooled with...so much....good or bad.....how do we pick the unpredictabel....i can see why you were on the phone with knabe so long :D.. ...i  guess  my answer is some where here in red...........jbarl
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 07:30:43 PM by JbarL »

Offline BIGTEX

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2008, 08:06:37 AM »
[



we may be hurrying it ....or we may have already passed it........ or did we llet  it pass  by us unoticed?.......  is it right around the corner....or just down the street...?          maybe genetics just isnt used to bein' fooled with...so much....good or bad.....how do we pick the unpredictabel....i can see why you were on the phone with knabe so long :D.. ...i  guess  my answer is some where here in red...........jbarl
[/quote]




So if you think we might be fooling with genetics too much? How do you feel about stem cell research and abortion? You don't have to answer, I already know!
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Offline aj

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2008, 08:19:05 AM »
Are the thou...ban whisky......student uprise mighty risky.....who won?oh no......how come?....fumbled some....am I on chemicals I forget.....brainwashchildren.....vote democrat...boogy boogy....secret spy encoded?...save us sd!!!!!!!help,help us?...what beer on the dash...yes ocifer!I'm home drive me drunk...oopsy where is Snoopy?bar thy fly the door katie...where am I thou mouse of defience act final?I love Lucy you old goosey. :P
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Offline JbarL

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Re: Curly Calf Syndrome
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2008, 09:24:37 AM »
......i  agree with stem cell research......and the last time i  checked..... its a womans constitunion right to have an abortion......so since i'm not a woman, thats one  i'll never have to worry about...hows about you tex?......as far a c calf/th /pha/ ect  is concerned and " are we fooling with genetics to much?....again the last tiime i checked...each individual cattlemen alone can make decisions to " create" what ever he wants to with in his own tank and pasture............ie...i have an aquantince who got rid of every straw of " dirty" maine semen he had.....would you have preferered he threw it away....or would you have prefered to have bought it all from him ,    you dont have to answer that...i think i already know....the main uncontrollable  varible  in cattle genetics are the , i's / mes, / and we's .......... reasearch has given us facts....what we do with them is soley up  to us......i dont believe the problem lies in the reasearch  and results of provided facts....if a cow was carring a terminal  pha calf....and she knew it ( and you didnt )...what do you think she would like to do ?.......would you allow her to  be a part of that  decision tex?........jbarl
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 10:01:28 AM by JbarL »

 

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