Uterine PH-what affects early embronic death

[TMJ Show Cattle]

Just had a meeting with the Repro specialists from University of Wisconsin, and then recieved a call from a friend who is having a hard time getting a cow to settle.  I am wondering if, in her individual case, is there something altering uterine PH that would cause early embrionic death.  The head GURU's are gone for the day, so I thought I would ask YOU GURUS ! Cowboy, what is your take on this?  BTW...Up North is fine...call me TMJ now 

[Cowboy]

I will be darned -- clever name -- I know the initials -- good job!! hehehe

Good hfr in the avatar pic too -- you have come FAR -- still have the elusive BOX for you here!!! That's gonna cost ya -- you know that don't ya??

As far as PH -- here is my take on that matter.

When a cow is actually in heat -- and on an average high roughage diet -- her uterin PH is close to 3.5 or 4 -- pretty acidic. If they are on high levels of grain it is even lower -- reason why I never feed the donors grain here -- I want the PH as low as possible when I breed.

Each day AFTER ovulation the PH inthe uterus goes up 1/2 point ( 0.5 ) until it reached about 7 on day even or later inthe cycle. Anything that prevents that upward motion will adversely affect the embryos. They can and usually do live until we get them flushed, but when we take that egg to the recip -- she MUST be within 1/2 point of the embryo donor or it will not live. The main reason we are so fussy on getting the recips lined up no more than 24 hours, prefferably 18 hours or less, from the donor if they are live, and going along with the expected PH of the frozen egg based on age at freezing.

Holding media is about PH 7 for day 7 eggs -- pretty standard.

If you breed a cow A-I, and there is a big problem with the cows uterus becoming the normal PH, you will not get her to stay pregnant. Most of the EED syndrome comes from problems after day 7 if the egg fertilized normally. Good point -- if you have a set of cows A-I'd or ET'd and you waiut till they go past the 21 days, and you then think they are bred and move them to pasture or at least a big swing in ration content -- systemic PH is affected, but also, this time of year it is more likely tht that pretty gren grass is your enemy!

Young, fast growing grass has a pretty high level of Estrogen compounds in it. If you go from DRY lot ration to GREEN, it is not unlike giving them a 1/2 dose of Prostoglandins. Some will cycle with a 1/2 shot of Lut, some will not. That may or may not be a problem for your friend.

If she goes past her date -- then cycles out of sync, these things may be a concern. All I can say without more info!!!

C A L L me!!

Terry

[Cowboy]

Correction to the above statement -- "I want the PH as low as possible when I breed"

This should be   " I want the uterin PH as HIGH as possible when I breed within the normals."

Sorry about that -- as I have gotten older, the fingers are doing what ever the hell they want to on this thing, even when the brain says something else! Don't ya hate that?? hehehe

I try to proof the print -- but I still miss some typos at times. Don't worry -- you will find em, look for words that just don't make any sense at all -- then use your best judgement!!! Works for me -- hehehe

Terry

[TMJ Show Cattle]

Ok. I see your finger still screws up like it used to hey??  Is there uterine PH strips out there in the industry like urine PH strips..are they the same thing? And how would you check PH?

OK, now another question.  We have moved from Ovsnyc 48 to Ovsync 56.  The University researchers claim another 5% or greater first service conception rate.  We set our cows up on a two shot presync program starting at day 34 with prostaglandin.  They now want us to move the first two prost shots to two days later.  They say it tightens up the window when we are syncning a bunch of cows.  An AI company came through and told us to go one MORE day later.  We switched last week to what the university says, but am wondering if you have heard of these new  programs and why they work so much better? 

Back to the PH stuff...If I have a huge older cow that eats 10-15 pounds more dry matter than what her "ration" calls for do you agree with me that this alone could casue her uterine PH to raise or lower or what ever the hell you just said up there??hehehe 

[red]

  back Carrie!!

Are you back at AgriKing?

Red 

[TMJ Show Cattle]

No....just got done breeding 50 cows!!!

[cowz]

Thanks, TMJ for the advice....the patient is now helping me mow the back yard.....he keeps looking at me like he is in trouble for eating grass!    Let's hope nature can fix the issue......so far no bloat today.

[Cowboy]

Carrie -- here it is in a nut shell.

Any time you can increase the PERCENT dry matter and lower the percent of grain per day -- this will deffinately help with increasing the uterin PH to a more optimal, if not neutral state. Nothing we do can cure everythng, but there are little things like this, if watched and paid attention over time, that CAN make a difference!

I know one thing for sure, I never feed a donor cow any grain, every single donor that has ever came here and was really thin at arrival, absolutely exploded within 30 days of arrival on nothing but straight Alfalfa and Cane -- along with Vita-Firm Concept-Aid. Total forage works wonders on these beef cows, but will lack energy needed for milk production. That would be your catch 22 I am afraid.

When you get the chance, TRY and remember how to punch in those little numbers on the telephone hey??? Picking on my fat fingers won't get you any points either my dear!!! hehehe 

Terry

[TMJ Show Cattle]

Ok...I will..Thanks for the info, I hope it helped more people out there than just myself! Hey Cowz...hows the steer doing today???

[cowz]

Ok...I will..Thanks for the info, I hope it helped more people out there than just myself! Hey Cowz...hows the steer doing today???

Only had to let air out of him once yesterday, his poop is improving, (did I really say that?), and what was interesting is that when we tubed him, his gas came out very rapidly, as opposed to very slowly, as it has the 20 times before.

I will keep you posted.  thx.....have a great weekend!

[SWMO]

"Young, fast growing grass has a pretty high level of Estrogen compounds in it. If you go from DRY lot ration to GREEN, it is not unlike giving them a 1/2 dose of Prostoglandins. Some will cycle with a 1/2 shot of Lut, some will not. That may or may not be a problem for your friend. "

Terry, when the cows are running on the pretty green grass since green up is there any affect on getting cows settled? Or is there system adjusted to the levels of Estrogen in the grass?  And since we have had lots and lots of cool very wet weather the clover is exceptional.  How much of an effect does the lush clover have?

[Cowboy]

Although the clovers have more than grass due to be Legumes, as long as you let the grass come to the cows -- in other words they are slowly acclimated to it, I don't see the same effects that way.

By changing rapodly form Fro lot to Green grass, it sets off the whole process. For those of you who are ranchers and have to feed dry all winter, then you go to grass all at once, you wil notice those thinner, ratty looking cows with hair patches missng etc. These cows hot the green and within a week it seems they are all coming into heat. Nature is at work for sure!

I wouldhave never noticed this phenom had itnot been for me doing the very same thing once. I had put in about a dozen Holstien embryos on a contract sale (Yes, I did owen some dry, older, VERY good Holsteins many years ago). Of the 12, there were 9 very solid non-returns to heat on the hfrs we used. I was confident they had taken the embryos, and at about 25-30 days, I simply let them out of the dry lot, walked them 100 feet to a 1 acre irrigated paddock by the house. I was really happy as these were sold for BIG money. WELL?? within 7 days I had lost all but 2 of the 9, and non were normal heat cycle dates.

I was furious when I found out thru research what I had just done to myself. Now -- I make darn sure that if we transfer on dry lots conditions and the recips were never acclimated to grass first, I wait until they are at least 45 days pregnant before I move them out. The embryo is basicly a free floating entity up until about day 37 when it attaches to a cotiledon. After that, the risk of envrionmental disruption is much less. Ihaven't been sorry since!

Food for thought folks, let the grass come to the cows as you continue to feed, they will gradually eat less dry and more green. It works!

Best of luck to all --

Terry
 

[TMJ Show Cattle]

Heres another question relating to this topic.. We had tons of rain last August and again this spring.  We had a pretty dry summer up until those August rains, what will the effects of nitrates and molds do to these cows fed this late hay and corn silage, or up here, CORN STALKS that they get let out on through the winter and into March?  Or should this be a non issue? (I am still talking about this one particular problem cow of my friends, but a general question)

[Show Heifer]

Did research in college....uterine PH also affects sex of embryo. We had a 90% accuracy