ASA Secretary

[NHR]

simtal....you have a strong point on the British breed-continental deal.I have never thought of it like that. I don't think the shorthorn cattle grade choice like they once did...years ago. Our yield grades are in the 2's alot of times but I think we need to identify a super grading shorthorn bull. I wondered if jpj might improve marbling ability but I haven't heard anything yet.

Try HHFS Dream Weaver for marbling and carcass, we have several daughters sired by him in our pasture. Really good females.

[aj]

Thanks I will look into him. 

[NHR]

Thanks I will look into him. 

Contact Roy Lovaas in Minnesota @ 320-679-5035

[garybob]

But, If we aged carcasses, tenderness would not be an issue!

so why aren't more carcasses aged?

Space and cooler flow problems
[/quote]Oh, yeah, if you've ever worked in a processing plant, you'd understand what simtal is saying. Processing Plants are desingned for a specific "flow" of product. And, dry aging really produces some foul-smelling hamburger, if the low-value cuts are ground.

GB

[knabe]

But, If we aged carcasses, tenderness would not be an issue!

so why aren't more carcasses aged?

Space and cooler flow problems
[/quote]

so if one had the opportunity to have a 15% more tender steak through minimal effort with minimal ageing, why is there such vehemence?

[garybob]

But, If we aged carcasses, tenderness would not be an issue!

so why aren't more carcasses aged?

Space and cooler flow problems

so if one had the opportunity to have a 15% more tender steak through minimal effort with minimal ageing, why is there such vehemence?
[/quote]
You ain't met the Corporate Nerds outta Springdale, have you? Besides, it would cost too much to cool them for a longer period of time. Ammonia Refrigeration is cheap and efficient, but, it requires electricity ( ever looked at a $85K light bill? ) to perform its' task.

GB

[knabe]

Oh, yeah, if you've ever worked in a processing plant, you'd understand what simtal is saying. Processing Plants are desingned for a specific "flow" of product. And, dry aging really produces some foul-smelling hamburger, if the low-value cuts are ground.

GB
[/quote]

i've worked in a processing plant before from a data standpoint, and being in production biology, completely understand flow and partitioning.  this is part of my response to the resistance for tenderness.  it would fit the flow with no effort to the processor.

also, the dry ageing comment on the hamburger is appropriate.  some people do not even like the smell/taste of dry aged.  a guy here in town does dry ageing with cheese cloth.  moisture in the air is the killer.  my boss at my new job takes steaks, salts them slightly so they don't sweat, wraps them in cheesecloth for 3 days in the fridge, wipes off the salt, then seasons.....

there just has to be a way to raise the bar for the end consumer without going kobe in a PREDICTABLE, PLEASURABLE, REPEATABLE fashion.  we focus so much on production, with so little on the consumer

[GONEWEST]

I saw on another page that the board asked for his resignation with dubious reasons. Anyone know the reasons given?

[sjcattleco]

simtal....you have a strong point on the British breed-continental deal.I have never thought of it like that. I don't think the shorthorn cattle grade choice like they once did...years ago. Our yield grades are in the 2's alot of times but I think we need to identify a super grading shorthorn bull. I wondered if jpj might improve marbling ability but I haven't heard anything yet.

AJ you are starting to see the light!!! Bulls like JPJ American Muscle, Gizmo, are going to carry that ability to grade / marble and even do it on grass alone... because of their TYPE not their breed!   Bulls like OCC Anchor, PCC Colorado Hobo. Rotokawa 930.. Are all of the same type and all will produce just about the same way! And imagine if  cattle of these type were cross bred.... An easy way to pick bulls is if 2 bulls are both 1 yr old and they both weigh 1500# pick the shorter of the 2... As far as I know noone have ever been paid by the inch for cattle..

[justintime]

sjcattleco... we may not get paid by the inch, but we certainly do get paid by the pound!  When we were running our feedlot, packers told me that 1 inch ,of extra length, in the middle of a 1200 lb finished steer was equivalent to 70 lbs extra weight( on a live basis). Again, I am just saying that we have to be careful not to go overboard in any direction. Here where I live, I am heari ng complaints from some of the biggest cattle buyers who tell me the quality of the cattle they are seeing has got poorer in the last decade. When asked why they think this is happening, they say it is the industry's obsession with low birth weight calves... and they feel most cattlemen are sacrificing length of body in order to get smaller birth weights.

I ran these comments past one of my vets, who is, in my opinion also an excellent cattlemen. He said he agrees with these statements and says that he is seeing more calving problems and more c-sections than ever in the years he has been in practice. He also said that he c- sectioned more 80-85 lb calves than ever before. This tells me that something is really wrong!  Either the shape of these calves is wrong, or the continual selection for lower birth weight has also resulted in females with smaller pelvic area.... or both....  is taking place. I have found that almost everything in the cattle business happens for a reason... and I think we often, in our quest for improvement, create problems in other areas.

I will agree that shorter cattle tend to be easier fleshing cattle. I agree that we all need effiicient cattle, but at the same time... we also need trouble free, fast growing, early maturing cattle that can make the cowman, the feedlot owner and the packer some money. Going too far in any direction will not do this. The cattle buyer I was talking too, also said that he is already seeing discounts in our markets for cattle that are too short.... I find this interesting!!

[aj]

The Shorthorn breed is a maternal breed. The industry contains 2 % shorthorn  genetics. In the commercial arena we are a joke and a zoo breed. We couldn't hurt the quality of beef in the world if we tried to cause we have no market share in the commercial world. If they are c-sectioning cows with 80 # birth weight calves...there is no way in hell we are going to break into the market by selling bulls with 100# bwt's. I am going to try and shorten up my cows by a inch. I think it will improve the fleshing ability and the quality grade of my cattle. Quality grade will be important with 7 $ corn. We have to sell bulls to someone before we can screw up the nations cowherds with non performing cattle. I may be sorry I downsized my cows but I am going to try it. If we take away all the supplements and grain and coddling I think the frame 5 cow will reign supreme and will stand tall on the mountain of efficient cowhood. I thou art think.

[justintime]

I was talking about beef cattle in general, NOT just Shorthorn cattle. The cattle buyer i was refering to, was in particular talking about Angus cattle, both red and black. I am not disagreeing with your wanting to make your cows easier fleshing. I am ONLY saying... make sure you don't go too far. I have seen it happen in every era change.

[justintime]

aj... maybe Shorthorns are considered a zoo breed in your area, and they probably were here at one time as well, but right now, Shorthorns are just about as easy as any breed to sell in my area. I have a hard time keeping females and the only way I do it is by pricing them accordingly. We have sold out of Shorthorn bulls for the last several years, and it has taken a lot of work to do it. I refuse to sell cheap bulls and I gage  my breeding program totally to what ever the cattlemen who buy want. I have proven it over and over again. Turn teh commercial men into the bull pen and what do they pick??? Without exception, they pick the highest performing bulls that had unassisted births first.... and at the highest prices. My bulls sell from $1800 and up, with most in the $2500-$3000 range.

I, too have selected herd bulls that will add some fleshing ability to their offspring. I think they are doing an excellent job of this but I also want to keep some performance in them. That is what my buyers want... so that is what i want to raise.

[knabe]

how would one REALLY know how efficient two cows were that had a difference of 2" if no one measures feed intake per pound of weaned calf? 

[aj]

I stand corrected. KNABE you are right. You have effeciencies in the feedlot...on grass...in different enviroments.On the cow end of things I tend to think in terms like efficient in my enviroment on cornstalks sawdust and sand...little protein supplements etc. etc.. What is the best level of milk for an enviroment can make or break a cow as far as breeding back and whatnot.