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Messages - Doc

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1
The Big Show / Re: ARG Hector 1777
« on: July 09, 2020, 06:36:48 PM »
Star Lake is the ranch our dear leader ran into the ground before the ASA members chose him.

 I didn't get a vote in that. Did you ??

2
The Big Show / Re: ARG Hector 1777
« on: July 01, 2020, 07:43:32 PM »

I'm ashamed to admit that his sire's sire is WHR Collin FR53, aka "Razor"! XBAR is going to have a field day here!


I wouldn't worry about that. He looks good. I love the way Collin is bred on the bottom side with Dazzler and Colleen.
Some people here in TN bought the US rights to Bushranger. They've got some pretty nice daughters of him.
The color doesn't bother me. If I wanted something solid colored and polled every time, then I would raise Angus.

Had you worried about that, maybe your Stars in the southern sky would have actually appealed to cattleman and it could have went on to be more than a one time flop.  Look what JSF has accomplished by utilizing pragmatic genetics.  With all the money behind Star Lake, had you had any skill in identifying and breeding functional beef cattle, you could be at the top of the game as they are.   Sullivan, Sarg, etc-- these guys are personalities.  It takes personality to sell something that lacks any intrinsic value.  So  its understandably why your sale results were so different, despite the fact that you use the same dysfunctional genetics. 



I'm ashamed to admit that his sire's sire is WHR Collin FR53, aka "Razor"! XBAR is going to have a field day here!



Bahaha, You so funny. Do you really think I care what you think about what cattle I choose. If you are that worried about it, it was 2 sales not 1. As far as not having any more sales the owner decided to do something besides run registered cattle. Still running the Shorthorn base with Angus bulls. Once again, like I have said time after time raise what works for you and what you can sell. We had 2 pretty decent sales, but anyone in the purebred industry will tell you it takes at least 3 years to get a sale established. I am glad to see that you are so concerned what we have done up here in TN. Oh and by the way, it is Springlake. Star Lake is a Hereford outfit in OK if I'm not mistaken.  But I do appreciate the input, I'll keep that in mind for the future.

3
The Big Show / Re: ARG Hector 1777
« on: June 27, 2020, 04:51:48 AM »

I'm ashamed to admit that his sire's sire is WHR Collin FR53, aka "Razor"! XBAR is going to have a field day here!


I wouldn't worry about that. He looks good. I love the way Collin is bred on the bottom side with Dazzler and Colleen.
Some people here in TN bought the US rights to Bushranger. They've got some pretty nice daughters of him.
The color doesn't bother me. If I wanted something solid colored and polled every time, then I would raise Angus.

4
The Big Show / Re: New bull first calves
« on: June 19, 2020, 05:15:21 AM »
They look good LJ !!

5
"Blue roans are hardest to produce and sell anywhere' Doesnt sound negative to me-


Misunderstood what you were saying. I read it as hardest to produce and hardest to sell anywhere.
 As far as Outsider goes, to each their own. Like I said, if I have seen any progeny they just didn't stick in my mind to make that big of an impression. But I'm not as a worldly travelled man as you and don't see as much cattle.
 I'll still take the my Nitro's.

6
 I'm going to have to strongly disagree with Mark. To start off with a blue roan is not hard to sell. They are usually way easier to sell than a solid red or RWM. As far as calving ease goes, I would use him any day and not worry. The calves are pretty stylish and the heifers make really nice cows. Just my opinion and experience.
 As far as Outsider goes, I have zero experience with. By his numbers he should be calving ease and what's been registered . If I have even seen anything out of him I really don't remember. So I personally am not rushing out to use him especially with him being out of a JPJ cow and he is a DSC(I'm not a JPJ fan at all). Looks like the majority of the calves by him were from Quad K in IL. Looks like Hahn used him a little.  JMHO. 

7
The Big Show / Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« on: June 06, 2020, 04:41:48 AM »
Quote from: Duncraggan link=topic=48234.msg466285#msg466285 date=1591384544/quote
Doc, you must have the best quality recips in the country! Beautiful cows!

 Thank you very much. They do a great job.

8
The Big Show / Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« on: June 04, 2020, 07:35:29 PM »
I apologize to you Doc for raising unworthy genetic defect free Shorthorn plus cattle. Shorthorn people love the black and roan shorthorn pluses that carry at least 2 defects.

 No need to apologize to me !! I don't give a rat's butt what you raise. I can pretty well guarantee that whatever you raise I won't be buying just like whatever I raise you won't be buying. We have different type buyers, so we raise different type cattle.
 As far as your bull goes, I was just pointing out that he was more RA and Maine than he was Shorthorn. Also other than taking your word for it no one knows that he is defect free because there is nothing on the ASA website. Like I said he or his dam would have to be tested for all 3 defects with animals in her pedigree that have all 3 conditions.
 Yes you are correct, people like those blue roans. Myself included. I don't agree that they have to have 2 genetic defects to be good though. I like the red roan Pluses and even solid red ones. But the solid red ones need to be a darker red and not that pumpkin orange. JMHO.
 The 3 blue roans and 1 other one are all recips for me. They have awesome udders, easy fleshing and are 1/2 Shorthorn. The red roan is a RA x Shorthorn cross female.

9
The Big Show / Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« on: June 04, 2020, 07:19:49 PM »
Stylist's sire was a purebred Red Red Angus. I had him tested for I think two Red Angus defects. I have spent over 7,000 $ testing for th over the last 10 whatever years. I'll have to look for paper work on the dam she was tested or clean by pedigree. It was probably done by Beever and not the official company. I'll send in a test to the official company this fall. I may draw semen this fall. I'll take bets on his results. It isn't hard to raise genetic defect cattle......unless you are taking short cuts to win in the show ring.

 So didn't you take a carrier to Denver ??

10
The Big Show / Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« on: June 03, 2020, 08:20:57 PM »
I have bred one better. Sodhouse Red Stylist 220. DR4254632

 He's more Maine and RA, than he is Shorthorn. You say he is free of everything but he hasn't been tested?? Going back to Warhorse, Suds, & Improver he could PHA, TH or DS or all 3. Nothing in his pedigree that I saw had been tested.

11
The Big Show / Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« on: May 31, 2020, 04:29:47 PM »
 What happened to the one post there this morning that xbar was talking about how many calves he had sired by Vanguard in like a 40 day window after he got him home and I want to say the heaviest one was like 85lbs ???

12
The Big Show / Re: Asterisk free shorthorn
« on: May 30, 2020, 04:53:53 AM »
I hope that Touchdown is calving ease sire. I read the articles in shorthorn country....."HC FL Touchdown 123T is one of the Horseshoe Creek herd bulls working the pasture. He is an easy calving sire with all of his calves being born unassisted and weighing 85 lbs or less at birth."

 I used four different calving ease sires this year to see if I could find a replacement for Gizmo. I will let you all know how that turns out. I used him on a larger made Jazz x Ace Of Diamonds x Rodeo Drive heifer.

Oh Breeder, that is exactly why always hesitate to promote a bull as safe for heifers, as there are lots of different types of heifers out there, with lots of different genetics in their backgrounds. I have only used Touchdown on a few cows that have any Trump breeding, and the calves have had moderate BWs. I have not used him on any heifers with Trump so how he will work on them is still debatable. Like I said earlier, the heaviest BW last year was 85 lbs but we did have a couple at 95 lb this year out of cows. How particular bulls work in different herds oftentimes makes me scratch my head. One example of this is with Gizmo. I purchased 10 straws of Gizmo a few years ago and used 4 straws. I got 3 calves... 2 bulls and 1 heifer. Both bull calves were well over the 110 lb BW limit I have in my herd, and both were pretty decent pulls, so both were banded. My experience with Gizmo, would suggest he is not a calving ease sire, but I know almost everyone else who has used him has been pleased with the calving ease.The heifer calf was smaller and was born unassisted, but she was not kept as a replacement as she just never grew very well ( which may not have been the sire's fault at all) So I still have 6 straws and every year I tell myself that I should try it again and see if I can get some lower BW bulls from Gizmo. So far, it is still in my tanks.

Truly remarkable how your personal experiences are ALWAYS stated to be so unlike everyone elses'.  Astounding really.
NO VINDICTIVE REALLY. Going back 9 years to dig something out just so you can badmouth somebody shows your true character.

Man, I'm with Doc-sun. How bored, petty, vindictive do you have to be to dig something that old up just to say crap to Grant. We all know you don't like him. Let it go. It gets old seeing you slam everything he says on here.
 

13
The Big Show / Re: JIT AND WERNICKE STRIKE AGAIN
« on: May 23, 2020, 05:11:04 AM »
 I like his pedigree and the way he looks. The bad thing for me personally is that he is DSC. I'm not saying that I won't use a DSC bull, but when I do I want to make sure that rewards are worth the risk. On an unproven bull, I don't know that rewards are there. Hopefully he works out the best.   JMHO.

14
The Big Show / Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« on: May 21, 2020, 05:18:15 PM »
There aren't plenty of 1600lb cows grazing year round anywhere. 

I didn't just wake up one day and say you know what I think 1100lbs is the arbitrary number I like.  No-- Its after sifting through hundreds of cattle over 2 decades that it became overwhelmingly obvious what type of cow it takes to breed back when pasture forage is the only input provided. And coincidentally, when you talk to others who stopped feeding their beef cows like dairy cows- they also came to identity the PARTICULAR SIZE AND SHAPE beef cow that is most ideally suited. I've wintered cows on stockpile only.. Its obvious which size cows can cut it come spring and which ones can't..  Sure you may come across an outlier but thats not the standard worthy of discussion.  Try it for yourself.  You'll see there is some give and take as far as adjusting stocking rate but thats only between the thresholds of cow weights that work.  You can put a 2000lb cow out in my pasture even by herself and I guarantee you she will be nothing but a skeleton in the pond's edge by late summer.
Arent you around 25 yrs old? You were sifting cows at 5 years old? Maybe you are an impressive specimen xbar

No not around 25
Idk about impressive but if I died today Id go out having got about twice as much as most so theres gotta be something to it
DON'T FORGET THAT XBAR IS AN XPERT ;)


One of the biggest issues I'll push for in the commerical acceptance committee is the elimination of Maine influence in the breed.  I'll accomplish this specifically by advocating for Maines to be given their actual SH%, which is zero.   Once they're no longer given any preferential status, they're use will fade rapidly-- I'll make sure and attribute the success of my goal, once accomplished, to you personally. Cheers

Good luck with that ! (NOT) Why stop there ?  I for one, am very pleased with my Red Advantage/Red Reward cattle.

15
The Big Show / Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« on: May 20, 2020, 08:06:03 PM »
Pretty universally accepted that the harder you cull, the smaller your mature cow weights will get.  Ive yet to meet anyone whose experienced otherwise.

I guess it would depend on what your cull criteria was.

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