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The Big Show / Re: KL- Lauer Shorthorn Complete Dispersal
« on: November 13, 2019, 02:15:45 PM »
I believe they called it a $2,211 average.

If I heard them right, KL Confiidence sold for $4,250.

The Big Show / Re: Quick question-was MR Tri Cando a usefull bull?
« on: November 12, 2019, 09:53:33 AM »
I wondered who bought it and what they knew about the bull.

My searches came up empty, but if you hadn't bid I was going to blindly add it to my FB Maine bank.

The Big Show / Re: DSH + DSC ?
« on: November 12, 2019, 09:48:56 AM »
Every crippled ds calf I've seen had a confirmed or possible PHA carrier parent.

The Big Show / Re: Melatonin\weight gain
« on: November 02, 2019, 04:59:35 PM »
I always liked to use a 1/4 to 1/2 acre or so paddock that I kept grazed down tight with heifers during the day. Good clean dry turf the steers could try to graze on, but really couldn't get any grass out of it. A lot of people use dirt lots that they keep loose and clean so it's soft on their joints as they get older after being penned up under fans all day. They definitely need to be let out to stretch and take advantage of the cooler temps, but you just can't let it affect the balance of the ration on the steers that are not packing the pounds on.

The Big Show / Re: Melatonin\weight gain
« on: November 02, 2019, 11:21:35 AM »
I was wondering if the steer had been held back for maturing reasons, to try to hit a certain show date, or if his weight was just a result of his actual ability.

Without knowing the calf, I guess I'd suggest giving him a more consistent routine. Finishing fats, be it in the real world or the show ring, is all about the details. Doing the exact same thing at the exact same time every day and making adjustments in small steps is always best. A steer does't need turned out into 7-10 acres. Assuming this is a grass paddock, he really doesn't need that either. Allowing him to have that forage source every other day is giving him the choice of what and when he eats and causing his rumen populations to fluctuate. The microbe populations used to process forage are not the same as the populations used to properly digest a high starch ration. You've got to build the population you want to use over time, which leads back to consistency being the key to pushing gains. Even the flakes of hay should only be given in an amount that's just enough to provide adequate scratch factor, rumen flow, and gut health.

Rinsing him 4 times a day could even be affecting his performance. Cattle naturally have a graze/rest cycle they establish throughout the day. It even fluctuates depending on the time of the year. You're replaced the graze with the bucket, but if you're getting him up to rinse too often, or at the wrong time, the rumen and the body in general aren't being allowed to settle into a proper somewhat natural routine.

Feeding cattle is a bit of an art form derived from a bunch of science. It's why so many "my steer won't eat" questions basically go unanswered online even though some very experienced feeders probably read the question. No mater how many hours of ruminant nutrition you've sit through or how many years you've read bunks in the real world, if you can't see the animal/routine in person you're often basically left making a wild ass guess.

The Big Show / Re: Melatonin\weight gain
« on: November 01, 2019, 10:01:56 AM »
What has led up to him only weighing 970 pounds at 16 months?

The Big Show / Re: Hot Commodity & Evolution
« on: October 25, 2019, 08:26:29 PM »
Oakview, your Draft Pick and Trampas bulls sent me down the bw epd rabbit hole.

Did Draft Pick throw calves anywhere near what his 7.9 bw epd says he should have? Guessing the two shots of Dreamboat, who is now an 11, made the epd calculator start to smoke.

On the other hand, would you consider Trampas to be calving ease? I see he's double bred Payoff, who is a 4 for bw, with two extra shots of Irish making him have at least 5 shots of Dividend/Leader. I've always been told Payoff was often used as a calving ease bull and even on cows that weren't exactly low bw animals. I've also generally been told he threw calves with smaller bone and an easy calving profile, but his 7 ced number doesn't really carve out that line of thought either. The epds on Trampas himself would tend to lead one toward that line of thought though.

I've watched the bw epd move around on some of my own bulls, especially right after turning in some interesting bw data, and often wondered if the system is overcompensating for things it can't begin to comprehend with some rather large assumptions.

The Big Show / Re: Hot Commodity & Evolution
« on: October 25, 2019, 11:36:15 AM »
There's a lot of good bulls from that era that are worth using. The problem is no one has told the new kids they're "good" and it's easier to sell "new & exciting" than old and proven in today's overly refreshing/updating world. From what I've seen, I'd rather use Pretender than HC but you can sell a HC based on the name being in the cool club way faster than the Pretender despite it being a better calf.

The current semen price seems to keep these bulls out of below average herds, and cows, so it's tough to get a feel for just how many good cows are carrying them to the finish line. I can't seem to get daughters out of either bull, but HC has been very inconsistent for me. I did keep one back, but she doesn't look like she'll be the cow her mother is. Evolution has been much more consistent here. His bull calves all look the same and they come early. Compared notes with two other long time breeders and they both had the same experiences.

I was hoping you'd get some responses to your frame post Weezie as there are people who will be looking to add frame, spine length, and milk in the near future. The era you've been mentioning had plenty of all three and some good bulls carrying those traits. I've gone through the semen tanks and picked out a few to use on my own smaller framed shorter spined ground sows that have been trending the last few years.

Bloodstone put one in the winners circle yesterday at the Royal that carried some frame over a couple of very good females that just lacked the shear size and mass the winner had. One of those females in particular was very very hard to poke a hole in other than she was simply more moderate. It's hard to believe this is even a suggestion considering how line bred the current herd is to them, but I'm surprised a few breeders haven't started injecting Trump and Rodeo Drive directly back into a few matings as well. Today's pot bellied heavy muscled Jersey trend has more than enough guts to carry a lot of the older bull's in that aspect.

The Big Show / Re: Hot Commodity & Evolution
« on: October 10, 2019, 09:40:57 AM »
Sull uses this picture of Hot Commodity somewhat regularly.

The Big Show / Re: Has anyone ever crossed a clubby bull w/highland cow??
« on: September 29, 2019, 07:09:20 PM »
I believe there was some form of an attempt at a promotional bull with a percentage of Highland blood in him not too long ago.

With the issues many club calves are having hitting show dates, I'm not sure how you'd make the cross work.

The Big Show / Re: Price point for Bulls in the United States
« on: September 27, 2019, 07:50:47 PM »
If memory serves.....Marty Loving told me his minimum was like 2,700$. That was on bulls that have been on  feed and tested and what not. You can wrap up a lot of feed in a bull if you feed them to a year and a half or two years old.

I thought he had a really nice sale. Watched from home and was quite impressed, but I don't think you can compare his sale to any other in the breed. Who is doing what he does? Is there a single other breeder efficiency testing? If I remember right, only 2 of his bulls even went to shorthorn breeders. That speaks volumes.

The Big Show / Re: Hill Haven Fire Storm 28C
« on: September 11, 2019, 08:44:20 PM »
I'm sure I will be crucified for asking but where does this bull shake out on the double muscle deal?

Tested free of all three.

Many of the Canadian breeders should be commended for their level of testing. Their list of results dwarfs the US list.

The Big Show / Re: Breeding issues.....
« on: September 09, 2019, 09:01:41 PM »
If he's special to you, get him looked at and collected as soon as possible.

You can pet the semen tank every morning long after he's gone.

The Big Show / Re: EPDs
« on: August 27, 2019, 07:28:21 PM »
That's an interesting set of numbers and adjustments.

I have two flush mates that obviously lean to opposite sides of their pedigrees. The differences in phenotype would have been obvious to anyone who knew the lines even when the calves were still wet. With ET calves not allowed into contemporary groups I ran genomics on them to see if it'd move the numbers as the eye indicated they should. To my surprise the system separated their numbers exactly like their phenotypes lead you to believe they should be, but it's several months down the line and now one of the bulls has been pulled right back to where other is even though neither bull has a single calf on the ground yet. If I had more cows I'd run them side by side for years and let it finish playing out.

The Big Show / Re: Everything Show Cattle is no more
« on: August 10, 2019, 09:55:58 AM »
Fb was always the equivalent of dealing with the devil. They'll get nearly every group before it's over with. Private farm pages and even personal profiles have been getting hit the last few weeks, so it's only a matter of time.

Websites and forums suddenly became cool again.

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