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Messages - oakview

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1
The Big Show / Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« on: January 24, 2020, 05:51:42 PM »
His performance is a direct reflection of his ability to grow and perform in the environment you provide.  Some of the older type bulls I did not like would sire calves that couldn't approach 500 pounds in the time yours took to reach 750.  Some bulls of today wouldn't either, for that matter.  If you've got cows you're happy with that raise calves that you're happy with, I wouldn't change a thing.  The trick is to find the next herd sire that improves or at least maintains what you've got. 

Show type cattle have needed a shot of real fleshing ability for a long time.  It's easier to make them look "fuller" with all the who knows what that's done to some of them, but it doesn't help them in the pasture.  I've had pretty good luck over the years either raising my own bulls or purchasing them from folks that raise them similarly to how I do.     

2
The Big Show / Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« on: January 24, 2020, 03:28:24 PM »
Performance, indicated to some degree by weaning weight, ADG, and yearling weight certainly has some significance to me.  Many of you aren't old enough to remember 350-400 pound weaning weights on good Iowa bluegrass pasture, but I am.  I am more interested in calves that have the genetic ability to perform much better than that on my same pasture, handled the same way.  I don't need a lecture on the efficiencies of small cows.  The cows that raised those 350 pound calves didn't come close to weaning half their body weight.  Their udders hung so low the calves had to almost lie down to nurse.  I don't care what anybody else does, but I'm not real interested in cattle that look like Clipper King of Bapton or Cat 20.  If you ever have a chance, read the Leader 21 story from the old Thomas-Gordon-Draper sales catalogs.  He was an outlier, not at all like the other bulls in the sale where Bob Gordon bought him. That's why he bought him so cheap.   He became popular as a show sire.  That's why ABS had him and there's so much semen around.  He sired some performance and increased frame size.  If you'd look through the old Shorthorn Worlds, about half of the Shorthorn bulls advertised in the late 60's and early 70'w were sons of Leader 21.  Breeders were looking for what he offered.  Most of the heritage bulls that are being used today, were also popular  show sires in their day.  I have semen in my tanks from a dozen of those old bulls.  All but one was either a good show bull in his day or sired some show winners. 

3
The Big Show / Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
« on: January 17, 2020, 08:54:48 AM »
Sure bears a strong resemblance to his relatives Ildeno and Friggio, doesn't he?  What % actual Chi is he?  All kidding aside, he does remind me of some of the popular Angus bulls of the 80's.  I can't think of a breed that has altered their original state more than Chis.

4
The Big Show / Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« on: January 15, 2020, 09:48:02 AM »
The dilution of "pure" genetics of almost every breed of every species is a direct result of breeders, and often a breed association, attempting to make their breed something they're not.  Selection within a breed for certain traits can take many generations.  Someone is always looking for a short cut.  Anybody know where I can find a real Angus?

5
The Big Show / Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« on: January 10, 2020, 02:28:24 PM »
Who would be qualified to make a list of bulls that are "relevant" and those that are not?  Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.  I know of no one that could make such a list based on the bulls of today of any breed, let alone those of 40+ years ago.  If one person sees a use for any bull, then he is "relevant." 

6
The Big Show / Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« on: January 08, 2020, 04:18:45 PM »
The Heritage registry is completely separate from ASA?  Cattle could be registered in both?  Would there be a way the ASA could denote Heritage cattle on an ASA certificate similar to what they did with the Milking Shorthorns and Maines in the past?  Would there be some benefit to working together with ASA?  What do you perceive as advantages to having a separate registry?  I'll try the Heritage website when I have more time.

7
The Big Show / Re: PB Maine Bulls on Shorthorns
« on: December 23, 2019, 10:00:11 AM »
You're right.  The breed associations just keep track of what people send them.  Hopefully, the DNA testing will help keep things "straight."  A question for some of you Angus folks, didn't Weaver Angus Farm's bull named Sport have his paper's pulled in the 70's for the mulefoot defect? 

8
The Big Show / Re: PB Maine Bulls on Shorthorns
« on: December 20, 2019, 09:31:55 AM »
When fullblood Maines were accepted into the ASA herdbook as 3/4 bloods, the general consensus was they were above 75% in Shorthorn blood.  Native French cattle crossed with Shorthorns was what I read.  I doubt if an Angus would come anywhere close to 3/4 Shorthorn.  Judging from the 80's, there would be many Angus with more Maine in them than Shorthorn.  I'm sure there's plenty of literature out there with a more complete story.

9
The Big Show / Re: PB Maine Bulls on Shorthorns
« on: December 13, 2019, 01:05:26 PM »
The original fullblood Maine bulls excel in performance, muscling, and bone compared to the Red Advantage line cattle, in my opinion.  I purchased shares in Red Savior, Red Power, and Propel and also have a grandson of Red Reward I've been using.  The Red Advantage line calves would be smaller at birth, prettier fronted, and generally more stylish, along with being polled for the most part.  Maybe I should try a fullblood Maine on my Red Advantage line females some day.   

10
The Big Show / Re: PB Maine Bulls on Shorthorns
« on: December 13, 2019, 09:22:31 AM »
I have had good luck with Cunia, Dollar II, Etula, Epinal, Capone, Covino III, and DJ Data Bank.  I haven't used any of them for years, but may dig them out of the tank again someday.  The calves sired by them may not be pencil necked enough to win big time heifer shows.

11
The Big Show / Re: Feasibility of Collecting My Own Bull
« on: December 05, 2019, 03:13:47 PM »
If I had a dime for every time I heard someone say "I wish I had collected that bull" I wouldn't be rich, but I'd sure have a lot more money than I have now.  The second most frequent comment I hear is "I sure wish I hadn't thrown out all that old semen."  I guess there's a thin line between "insurance" and "hoarding."  If you like the bull and what he's done for you, the cost of collecting 100 straws of semen is low.  It sometimes really works to come back with your previous bloodlines after a couple generations of something else.  I've got semen from quite a few of my old herd bulls, some nearly 50 years old.  I'm glad I have it.  As far as selling semen goes, that's a tough business.  The ones that truly succeed are few and far between.

12
The Big Show / Re: Quick question-was MR Tri Cando a usefull bull?
« on: November 13, 2019, 10:38:10 AM »
I had great luck with Dollar II 30 years ago when it became "legal" to use Fullblood Maines on Shorthorns.  The Roseleafs in my herd are still the most numerous and productive and all go back to a Dollar II sired cow I raised.  If I was younger and had more energy I'd use it today along with Capone, Cunia, Epinal, etc.  I used a few "modern" Maines over the years and always felt the original Fullbloods added more genetic kick.  The only Fullblood bull I didn't have such good luck with was Red Alert.  Probably the most desirable Maine as far as physical appearance, but his daughters just didn't milk well enough for me.

13
The Big Show / Re: Maine Anjou Cattle
« on: November 05, 2019, 02:17:53 PM »
That's a pretty broad statement.  in some instances it could be true, but certainly not all.  I have heard people say that today's Angus is nothing more than a combination of Angus, Maine Anjou, Limousin, Holstein, and/or Chianina.   Another broad statement that in some instances may or may not be true. 

14
The Big Show / Re: Hot Commodity & Evolution
« on: October 28, 2019, 09:29:17 AM »
Draft Pick's calves were absolutely not large at birth, just average for us.  I don't remember helping any of them.  Trampas was used very successfully on heifers.  One of the reasons I liked him, other than he was a very good bull, was his Una family dam.  Lazy D Deerpark Una was a full sister to the full Irish bull I bought from Lazy D as a calf, Lazy D Ultimate Type.  He was a "balanced trait leader" for several years.  Payoff has been a sure fire calving ease bull for me.  I have only had one calf in the past 20 years or so, but it was easily born from a first calf Sull Cyclone daughter.  One of the top 5 cows I ever had was a Payoff daughter out of a first calf Dollar II female from my Roseleaf line.  I used Dreamboat and Exclusive shortly after they came out.  I synchronized 7 three year old females and got 7 bull calves.  The first one, a Dreamboat out of a Prairie RR Babe Ruth daughter, came about 5 or 6 days early.  The last, an Exclusive out of an Ultimate Type daughter, was about 14 days late.  The other 5 were born at or about their due date and were no problem.  I had a few Seville descendants, however, that were quite large at birth.  I had a Jam's Uh-Huh bull calf out of a Seville daughter that was very large.  All the Uh-Huh calves were that way for me.  The Dollar II cow mentioned above had an Uh-Huh bull calf that was the largest I ever had at birth.  Quite different than her Payoff calf.  The Uh-Huh's did grow, however, and I never lost one.   

15
The Big Show / Re: Hot Commodity & Evolution
« on: October 25, 2019, 02:36:16 PM »
Interesting Pretender is brought up now.  I picked out a bull calf from Dale when he was a calf.  I opted for MTS Draft Pick instead, don't know if Dale would have priced Pretender to me anyway.  I wasn't really interested in him.  I will say he is a unique blend of genetics.  I did have a few calves out of Pretender, but they didn't come easy.  Yes I know half of the BW genetics comes from the cow.  Draft Pick did a great job for me.  His first bull calf was an All American nominee, Oakview Press Pass.  Check out his pedigree, just about everything imaginable in it.  Draft Pick was out of the old MTS Queen cow, a Rodeo Drive daughter out of a Maine influence female.  I've got a few Pretender embryos from her in my tanks somewhere.  What I like most about raising cattle is the difference in opinions of cattle producers.  I have great friends that swear by the Trump/Red Reward cattle, I've got friends that will go to absolutely extreme measures to locate and use bulls from the 60's and 70's.  Now I know folks that want those 90's cattle.  I bought GR Cop Top Trampas from Merle Welch in the mid 90's and he sired a group of calves that were about the most eye appealing group of calves I ever had.  The females made good cows, the bull calves looked like bulls, and the calves were moderate at birth.  Lots of good bulls from every era that could have a positive influence in the right situation.   

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