$340,000 1/3 Semen Interest

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dink

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Nov 24, 2007
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This morning Express sold 1/3 semen interest only in EXAR Denver 2002B for $340,000 to the Denver Syndicate.  So does this make him more valuable than the 3/4 interest and possession for $600,000 in the Miles McKee bull that sold on Monday?
 

dink

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Nov 24, 2007
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Yes Express.  A son of EXAR Upshot 0562B.  Was in their Denver Carload,
 

chiangus

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Yes by the numbers.

EXAR Denver 2002B semen interest total value - $1,020,000
McKee Hereford semen interest total value - $800,000 + rights to possession

How many people are usually in these syndicates?
 

chiangus

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Add to that even though the economy is weak we are still seeing the top of the market be unaffected.  I saw as many high dollar calves sold in the fall as I have seen any year.
 

obie105

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Most generally when bulls are syndicated you have to get semen from an owner. I dont think the owners on either bull have been announced yet.
 

sizzler14

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yeah well i am willing to call bullshit on both!!!!! no matter how many people say oh its real its real, bullshit! i know plenty of bulls that say sold for 50k and the check says 10k. i have seen it first hand!
 

cowman 52

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Syndicates usually work li,e semen sales in the early 60's, you have to buy a share to get any semen, the way around it is when x syndicate partner has a sale, you may buy such an such heifer with 2 straws of semen on high dollar bull.
Before open semen sales, you had to own a part of the bull to use the semen.
 

HF CHARS

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DiamondCattleCo said:
yeah well i am willing to call bull**** on both!!!!! no matter how many people say oh its real its real, bull****! i know plenty of bulls that say sold for 50k and the check says 10k. i have seen it first hand!
I have seen it the other way too,,,cuz I have written the checks for 30 - 60k,,,so it does happen..I am tired of hearing that "its always bull"  .. some people do put up that kind if money
 

sizzler14

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huge difference between 30k and 340k and 600k. like a huge decimal place that means a lot.
 

shortyjock89

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It's not all that different when the syndicates have upwards of 8-10 people.
 

Duncraggan

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I am often sceptical of these 'publicity stunts' as there has to be an underbidder out there for the winning bidder to bid against.  One very seldom hears who the underbidder was and if it was a 'bona fide' bidder!
 

justintime

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I don't know if this sale is for real or not. I think there is as good a chance of it being a real sale as there is it being a phony promotional deal. I expect Express would have had to offer some semen production guarantees.
If you own a part of a really good sire on the semen market, it can be a pretty good ride. Some of these prices we see in the industry are far above what most of us could ever possibly afford to spend on any animal, but it is not a huge amount of money to some other people. I have no idea how many people were involved in buying into this bull.  He may never be offered to the public and this price was for exclusive use.
In the recent Schaff Angus Valley sale, I think there was 10 bulls sell for over $90,000 as well as a few females. The top bull was $400,000 and the top open heifer was also $400,000. I know of a couple of breeders who went to that sale with $100,000 to buy a particular bull, and they did not get him bought. They weren't even the runner up bidder.
 

Duncraggan

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justintime said:
I don't know if this sale is for real or not. I think there is as good a chance of it being a real sale as there is it being a phony promotional deal. I expect Express would have had to offer some semen production guarantees.
If you own a part of a really good sire on the semen market, it can be a pretty good ride. Some of these prices we see in the industry are far above what most of us could ever possibly afford to spend on any animal, but it is not a huge amount of money to some other people. I have no idea how many people were involved in buying into this bull.  He may never be offered to the public and this price was for exclusive use.
In the recent Schaff Angus Valley sale, I think there was 10 bulls sell for over $90,000 as well as a few females. The top bull was $400,000 and the top open heifer was also $400,000. I know of a couple of breeders who went to that sale with $100,000 to buy a particular bull, and they did not get him bought. They weren't even the runner up bidder.
This smacks of the Shorthorn 'hype' of the 1950's and 1960's, or the IT bubble of the '90's and the financial bubble of 2008!  At some point this becomes unsustainable and the "Johnny come lately's" get burnt!

Next thing is that they will be selling SAV bulls in Las Vegas!  It happened with Brahman cattle in South Africa in the 1980's, Nguni cattle in the early 2000's, Bonsmara cattle in the late 2000's and is happening with Boran cattle at the moment!

When you get big business, or worse still, 'captains of industry' involved, where life is just one big pi**ing contest, things tend to get a bit skewed away from the realm of livestock farmers!

I always say good luck to the creators of the hype, and those who took the risk of getting in early!  Not sour grapes from my side, maybe Shorthorns will be the 'next big thing', I'm there already and having a good time doing what I do!
 

clgcattle45x

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  who makes up this syndicate of buyers who are the main players other than Express themselves
 

executive37

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EXAR Denver was purchased to my knowledge by a syndicate of dairy investors based in Chicago. They have been strong players in the genomic game with high end dairy genetics. They have decided to get into the Angus on one of the most unique Angus individuals for genomics, EXAR Denver. The price was real. I know the contending bidder personally. He is from Texas. There also was another syndicate made up of 16 breeders that were involved at $240,000 plus on the bull. This sale was real, 100% guaranteed!
 

RyanChandler

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I don't think you can think about it in terms of 'sustainability.' This is discretionary play money that's being thrown around. 
 

justintime

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I have never been able to figure out why a person can spend a small fortune on  most anything today, and people just say" it must be nice to be able to be able to do that". But if it is a female or bull in this business, most everyone thinks it is a fixed or phony deal and the people involved are crazy. A neighbour of mine went to town last fall, and puchased a second combine for more money than this, and his reasoning was he wanted to be able to have more crop in the bin if we were to get a wet fall. As it turned out, we never had a drop of rain during harvest, but I have never heard a solitary person question his logic,  for doing this( except me!!). Yet if I was to go to a sale and buy a new herd sire for say, $30,000 ... or even less.... many people would be questioning my sanity or thinking I made a deal with the seller and bought the bull for much less.
I have no idea of who was involved in this $340,000 semen interest deal, but I totally expect it to be a real deal. People spend their money in many different ways, and I am sure the people involved in the purchase of this bull probably have some kind of game plan and probably think they spent their money wisely.

A couple weeks ago, a young Angus breeder, who is just establishing his own herd, helped me clip and picture my sale cattle. He was telling me about going to an Angus sale to try to purchase a herd bull that he thought could help him establish his herd. He had another breeder willing to partner with him and he bid to $38,500 but did not buy the bull. A commercial rancher from Montana purchased the bull. Most people would say this was a phony deal or the man was crazy, but it was a real deal and this rancher had the money and decided he wanted the bull. I see people spend there money virtually every day in ways I would say are foolish, but at the end of the day, it is their money and they can spend it in any way they want to do so. I have a friend in the plumbing business and he is constantly telling me stories of people installing a kitchen sink that cost $3800 or $1000 taps for the bathroom. I doubt if the water is much different coming out of the $1000 tap than it does from the $50 taps I have in my house. People make money in many different ways... and they spend it in many different ways. It has always been this way and probably will be. It is the same deal in this business.
 
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