"A rib too long"

JSchroeder · Apr 26, 2011

Can somebody explain the logic behind why length of body in a market steer can be a bad thing?

I understand that it's become a factor in the show ring, what's the reason for it?

chambero · Apr 26, 2011

I don't get it either. I have heard multiple people criticize babies for being too long (not just on this website), but there isn't any logic too it whatsoever. I don't think I've ever heard a judge directly criticize one for being too long.

When judging prospects, I guess as a calf gets longer, it might get a little harder for one to maintain that perfectly straight topline when they get heavy just due to gravity. Also, extreme length could give a steer more of an opportunity to look "piecey". There is probably a slight optical illusion also - two calves of the same width, the longer one would not appear quite as thick.

Judges ought to put more emphasis on length than thickness - more money in length on a carcass (more steaks down the top). Why aren't carcasses measured for length (i.e. Why aren't ribeyes measured for length or even volume instead of just area?)

JSchroeder · Apr 26, 2011

I should probably say I'm not trying to call out the comments from the Yellow Jacket thread. It's just something that's become quite common lately.

bcosu · Apr 26, 2011

from a weight management perspective, some of the longer body steers we have fed were a little harder to feed as they sometimes get a little heavier than they look.

not that it's a bad thing but it might turn off some.

ai er · Apr 26, 2011

My guess is that on the profile, an animal is divided into thirds. One third is from the nose to just behind the shoulder. Second third is from behind the shoulder to the hook bone, and final third is from hook to tail head. One that is a rib too long, looks out of proportion. I tend to think it is more of being short rumped, than a rib too long.

Bulldaddy · Apr 26, 2011

Sometimes a tubular, narrow bodied calf appears to have a longer body. I wonder if that could have something to do with it?

venable@tds.net · Apr 26, 2011

I can think of several reasons why long body calves don't do as well in a class.
1. Trend is to make them look boxxy. Long calves don't look boxxy.
2. Long calves seem to have trouble holding their top up as they become heavy in weight. ( Weak topped) Relaxed top line. They can't help it. Their body from flank to flank is just longer.
3. Long calves in a weighted class generally are not as tall as the majority of the class. So they are generally smaller framed in a class of calves weighing the same.
4. Longer calves don't reach a finished product as fast.
5. Longer bodied calves are harder to hold at a certain weight or finish.
6. Longer bodied calves don't appear to be as balanced in the profile. Not always, but generally they don't look as balanced.
7. Stress on a longer bodied calf going on a journey to a show is usually is more noticable.

The above reasons have very little to do with carcass merit. Just pertains to management of a show steer in preparation to be competitive in the show ring.

I can think of other reasons.
Look at the time saved in clipping on a shorter bodied calf.
Dont need extensions on calf pullers.
Smaller circle when resetting a steer in a class.
Shorter show sticks.
Can get more steers in a trailer.
Eat less feed, maybe.
Less area to blow every day

This is a bad attempt to be humerous. But there you go.. (lol) (pop)

Bradenh · Apr 26, 2011

[email protected] said:
I can think of several reasons why long body calves don't do as well in a class.
1. Trend is to make them look boxxy. Long calves don't look boxxy.
2. Long calves seem to have trouble holding their top up as they become heavy in weight. ( Weak topped) Relaxed top line. They can't help it. Their body from flank to flank is just longer.
3. Long calves in a weighted class generally are not as tall as the majority of the class. So they are generally smaller framed in a class of calves weighing the same.
4. Longer calves don't reach a finished product as fast.
5. Longer bodied calves are harder to hold at a certain weight or finish.
6. Longer bodied calves don't appear to be as balanced in the profile. Not always, but generally they don't look as balanced.
7. Stress on a longer bodied calf going on a journey to a show is usually is more noticable.

The above reasons have very little to do with carcass merit. Just pertains to management of a show steer in preparation to be competitive in the show ring.

I can think of other reasons.
Look at the time saved in clipping on a shorter bodied calf.
Dont need extensions on calf pullers.
Smaller circle when resetting a steer in a class.
Shorter show sticks.
Can get more steers in a trailer.
Eat less feed, maybe.
Less area to blow every day

This is a bad attempt to be humerous. But there you go.. (lol) (pop)

true about that top portion. ive got one thats too long. it takes more weight to finish a calf thats long as a train, there fore they dont finish. and if they do they have to have more weight and everyone stands around and looks silly when you have a calf weighing 1450 trying to get finished because there is just so much of him. . . . .it takes away from their depth, too long is just as bad as being too short in my mind

SFASUshowman · Apr 26, 2011

I agree with everything thats being said as reasons...I havent ever criticized one to hard from it. But from a packing plant perspective, the hooks and the rails are all at the same heighth, and its gaged for an average steer, so longer bodied carcasses have more risk of dragging the ground which equals waste.

TJ · Apr 26, 2011

SFASUshowman said:
I agree with everything thats being said as reasons...I havent ever criticized one to hard from it. But from a packing plant perspective, the hooks and the rails are all at the same heighth, and its gaged for an average steer, so longer bodied carcasses have more risk of dragging the ground which equals waste.

Gerald Frye & his disciples believe that too much body length is a defective trait that should be selected against & he claims that "most long backs have too small a loin muscle". His website says this about back length...

"The 2/3 top line is composed of the rump length and back length. Distance from the middle dip in vertebrate (chine bone) between the shoulder blades to back of rump. If the back is to long it affects the neck length and the animal is out of balance. Long backs tend to be weak and will sway. Most long backs have too small a loin muscle. The long backed animals will a dip from loin to top of the shoulder. There will be a dip from rib cage to shoulder blade. This break or dip is a structural defect and should not be tolerated. "

Here is the link to read the whole write up...
http://www.bovineengineering.com/linear_male.html

JSchroeder · Apr 26, 2011

Thanks for the replies, I don’t disagree with much of anything that’s been said about prospect calves, I should have been clearer on the context.

It’s my fault for not mentioning it but what made me first raise my eyebrow at faulting a calf for length was San Antonio or Houston this year when a judge mentioned that he’d like to change a calf by shortening him a rib and adding that to his depth.

TJ, that’s certainly an interesting way to look at an animal but the “adjusted shoulder width” part wouldn’t fly too well with most steer shows.

Freddy · Apr 26, 2011

Balance ,look hard doing, not easy fleshing ,makes the rump and hip look like not as big ,kinda like frame difference can do ....

Also a certain bull that is kinda hot in the club business that has so much length that he can't reach with hind feet where the front feet were , or in my opinion not tracking correctly. Basically he moves like a cat and isn't to straight legged but just tremendous length, in my opinion there is a limit to every thing ,maybe it will bother him if he had to breed cows out in the country very many years ...Balance should make things work together better ,also just look better ...

STX108 · Apr 26, 2011

Could possibly throw off their balance....

hamburgman · Apr 26, 2011

Ya for me a rib to long means they need to be 1500 lbs before they have .4 backfat. Those really long bodied cattle just don't seem to finish our and feed as well, be it show or commercial cattle. That being said I wouldn't be suprised if you put two critters of the exact same length next to each other and I called one a rib to long and the other one just right. I would be about he balance of the creature, long and not that deep sided gives a tubey hard feeding look. If the other one had the appropriate depth I bet I wouldn't call it too long bodied.

Telos · Apr 26, 2011

Proportions help create an illusion of body length. Shorter legs, longer legs, spring of rib, deeper rib, thicker necked, bigger head, wider top, etc. all help us perceive this thing that many call length of body. Many times our eye is just fooled especially when compairing cattle that don't have the dimension of overall thickness.

There is not much difference regarding body length in cattle of similar weight, muscling and conditioning. Go into some coolers.

"Too long" is just a stupid statement and should never be used for giving reasons.

MCC · Apr 26, 2011

I was always taught if you are extreme in one area you can't be balanced. So if an animal is long sided he isn't balanced. Style and balance were always terms that we were taught to look for and use in our reasons classes when we were judging.

cwbyup62 · Apr 26, 2011

There is a really simple answer to this question, and it is one that I totally dis agree with. Years ago, the re weigh was put into shows, I understand why it was put in, but it has also been in my own opinoin, one of the biggest detrements to the idea of the show steer becoming more like real world cattle business. One of my best friends says this to me constantly that I like cattle to long sided, because I tend to like longer sided cattle, if they can hold their framework and balance together and still be functional in their kind. The guys trading steers hate it because long bodied cattle are much harder to make the re weigh at shows. This is why the short, coupled, tight wound, unsound cattle have worked their way to the top, so that they can appear thicker and still make the re weigh. The reason I add unsound is very simple, when you make a body, shorter in every way, the flex is taken away from it's skeleton. I know some will argue on here that soundness is not important, but it is to me and that is an argument for another day.

Personally I like Rib-Eyes, much better than hamburgers, and taking out length of body takes out ribeyes, not to mention allow the skeleton to flex the way it was meant to.

Just my opinion.

Mark

cdncowboy · Apr 26, 2011

From what I was told it was always a weight management issue. The longer bodied cattle were harder to control for target weight.
Guess I'm like cwbyup62, always liked the longer cattle. In the steer business I've had to let that personal preference go, but IMO some of these cattle are getting way to short bodied. But in a business ruled by extremes why would any sane thinking person lean towards moderation. :-\

"A rib too long"

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