Steer Planet - Show Steers and Club Calves Forum

Steer Planet Chat => The Big Show => Topic started by: shortybreeder on January 09, 2020, 09:10:02 AM

Title: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: shortybreeder on January 09, 2020, 09:10:02 AM
Trucks are on their way to Denver.. who are the hot bulls everyone is excited to check out this year? Any breeds/club calf, hill or yards.

Also post candid photos when you've got them  ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: hclubcalves on January 09, 2020, 05:43:56 PM
 Wade's bulls look like heaters this year.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Gargan on January 09, 2020, 08:56:33 PM
I'd like to hear someone's opinion of Griswolds Relentless son and their here I am son.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Woody on January 10, 2020, 09:02:40 AM
I’m with you Gargan  (pop)
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Tallcool1 on January 10, 2020, 11:49:44 AM
Wade's bulls look like heaters this year.

Where can I find Wade's bulls that he is taking?  Website doesn't show anything.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Gargan on January 10, 2020, 11:53:45 AM
May need to click on image to zoom in
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: WinterSpringsFarm on January 10, 2020, 06:43:37 PM
I'd like to hear someone's opinion of Griswolds Relentless son and their here I am son.

I would also like to hear about the relentless son.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Shorthorn-Fed on January 10, 2020, 09:14:01 PM
From the looks of Facebook , Waukaru has some good ones going on my opinion.

Russ
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 11, 2020, 08:00:37 AM
Those two on the bottom are btdb- BAD TOO DA BONE-HOLE DA FONE ETC O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: shortybreeder on January 12, 2020, 11:46:29 AM
From the looks of Facebook , Waukaru has some good ones going on my opinion.

Russ
I agree--the Stockman grandson, Rawhide 9001, really caught my eye.

I'm not sure which bulls JSF is taking down, but I found a couple bulls in their sale catalog that I'm hoping will be there. I'm also curious if Leveldale is going. I'd like to see what they put together this year since I never saw anything about a fall production sale, but they do have a bull sale on the Shorthorn Country schedule.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on January 12, 2020, 11:41:50 PM
There might be one or two there that go back to red reward  (lol)

Jokes aside I did see (1) calf in the JsF catalog that did
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on January 12, 2020, 11:44:00 PM
This calf here looks phenomenal
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: shortybreeder on January 13, 2020, 11:53:39 AM
This calf here looks phenomenal
I like how it says "everyone" will get a chance to use him.. think maybe they're going to list him with an AI company like Select or Cattle Visions instead of limiting availability to 10 or 20 units at each sale?? That would be a nice change of pace in the breed.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 13, 2020, 12:30:05 PM
Too bad the cool Shorthorn display bulls are gone with the wind-they used to hold their own with everybody O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Carlson Cattle on January 13, 2020, 01:01:36 PM
For clubbies it looks like Wade has knocked it out of the park again this year, but yes also very interested in the Relentless son from Griswolds.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 13, 2020, 01:29:51 PM
There might be one or two there that go back to red reward  (lol)

Jokes aside I did see (1) calf in the JsF catalog that did//// Maybe thats because they bred Red Demand and registered 150 or so head to him after he went to sullivans-+- As far as registrations there are around 470 Red Demands registered and a slew of steers etc that Jay Benhm fed but didnt register-There are close to 600 Red Rewards registered and surely a bunch more that ended up on the back road near Sullivans at thier feedlot-Thats over 1000 registrations. Nobody can sell Shorthorn bulls in the volumes of the big Western Angus etc breeders-They sell more bulls in a couple sales than Shorthorns do in the entire breed for several years O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on January 13, 2020, 02:19:42 PM
Over 1000 registrations from direct offspring then the line essentially died out as evident by there being nearly none who show him as the maternal grand sire.   Like I said in the other post, you have Leveldale boardwalk and that’s it.   Out of those 150 you mention, little to none were retained as breeding pieces to build upon for the next generation -making my case and point.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 13, 2020, 04:46:24 PM
Grand daughters etc of Red Reward? Surely you jest-I dont have time to go through that many registrations Ditto to see where the Red Demand and Red Advantage  Jungels cattle  went I would say a number of them got sold somewhere :especially with the number of commercial buyers who dont give a dam about papers Next time I see Jungels I"ll try and remember to ask The Rewards are all over and there are alot of the females that have produced numerous calves that were registered Jay Benham had way more cattle out of Red Demand than Jungels and until recently was still using him although hes getting old as a walking bull-Sullivan had some too-Ive been to Benhams several times and saw as many as 25 daughters from one calf crop-about 6 years ago he sold some for several years at Ohio and kept some for cows-which he bred to private Malone and sold daughters and bulls -Some at Ohio a good many privately-to kids and commercial breeders-Who in many cases dont register anything. Of course the cattle evolved into a more attractive show package-like Rewards over Demands which were prettier and darker red,Sull payday-a kind of combo of both-and or a number of Reward sons that are doing a fairly good job even though you can also show them  SO- lets see your case over the last 14 or so YEARS for ONE line of U S  basic performance bulls (EZ CALVERS THAT GROW AND DONT LOOK LIKE SKINNY MILKERS) that are still contributing calves in 2019-20 that can SHOW and work as cows-How many Eagle 666s (the devil made me do it ) are still out there competing with Major Leroy RE BWS? O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Medium Rare on January 13, 2020, 08:28:55 PM
Are there any new 1/2 blood shorthorn clubby bulls out there?

Looking for a very clean front, decent spine length, and a touch of frame to go with all the other good stuff.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Gargan on January 14, 2020, 10:13:57 AM
Are there any new 1/2 blood shorthorn clubby bulls out there?

Looking for a very clean front, decent spine length, and a touch of frame to go with all the other good stuff.
To add frame and spine I'd go back a little to Tabasco.  There are a few newer ones like orange sherbet and redneck and dabo but I would think theyd downsize
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: CRS on January 14, 2020, 11:16:55 AM
We used Revolution and they were pretty nice and dual registerable. Shorthorn and Chi, cleaned up front end kept belly and spine length without compromising thickness.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 14, 2020, 07:45:15 PM
There are several-AF Blue Moon is one at J3 Cattle-Hes an I 80 out of Aldens Mirage-Got good maternal but hes plenty stout-THE FREAK ON A LEASH IS MINDBENDER Just make sure you have a very correct sound female-He is a Starburst on a MeyerxFull Throttle-Changes them more than anything ive seen since the good old days Man On A Mission is a real nice solid red deal who you might like too-Although use has been limited-The calves have been very good-I have semen on Sull Blue as well VegasxStockman-full sib to the big time dark blue female winners of Sullivan-certainly some of the premier plusses Pictures- The two heifers are mindbenders from NON OTHER than THE VA STATE FAIR LAST FALL-Shorthorns are basically non existant in VA-not so in MD PA or West VA Blue moon is third O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Jacob B on January 15, 2020, 01:06:58 PM
Any chance we could get back to the original post?  Would love to hear from anyone out there in mile high. thoughts opinions etc.  Ive read the bickering before about what we all should be doing according to xbar, not as interested in that. 
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on January 15, 2020, 03:13:37 PM
Any chance we could get back to the original post?  Would love to hear from anyone out there in mile high. thoughts opinions etc.  Ive read the bickering before about what we all should be doing according to xbar, not as interested in that. 

Maybe you suffer from some of that derangement syndrome they talk about Trump opposers having-but I haven’t made any comments here regarding what you or anyone else here should be doing

On a sidenote- perhaps if you did listen a little more you might not continually experience such **** luck with **** cattle
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: hclubcalves on January 15, 2020, 04:12:54 PM
 Why is that XBAR character allowed to remain on this site?
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: sackshowcattle on January 15, 2020, 04:26:26 PM
Display bulls won't be displayed until this weekend so will probably have more info then. Don't know if they start Thursday or Friday.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on January 15, 2020, 06:51:56 PM
Why is that XBAR character allowed to remain on this site?

Simple.  I walk the walk.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: aj on January 15, 2020, 07:02:18 PM
It always seemed like to me that the display club calf bulls out there...….well 90% of them are duds. They aren't subject to drug tests. They are fed and manufactured to with in inches of their life. They are all dead at the age of three. I don't know …..just my perception I guess.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: doc-sun on January 15, 2020, 08:35:24 PM
Why is that XBAR character allowed to remain on this site?

Simple.  I walk the walk.
Because Xbar is a Xpert. Just ask him😆
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on January 15, 2020, 09:06:03 PM
Why is that XBAR character allowed to remain on this site?

Simple.  I walk the walk.
Because Xbar is a Xpert. Just ask him😆

O doc don’t be sour- I’m sure there’s something you’re good at too, surely?

Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: hclubcalves on January 15, 2020, 09:08:07 PM
Why is that XBAR character allowed to remain on this site?

Simple.  I walk the walk.

What walk is that?
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Gargan on January 16, 2020, 04:13:35 PM
I would like a report on Blaine Rodgers and Guyers " Chosen 1" bull too if anyone sees him
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: hclubcalves on January 16, 2020, 05:07:30 PM
 Chosen 1, and c.o.d look like the real deal on the steer side. I am also interested in Phil Lautner's bull Smooth Whiskey.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Cattle Cards on January 16, 2020, 09:29:10 PM
Anyone go by the American Chianina Association booth in the Yards?

CARD Linebacker 56C 2CA - "He is powerful and massive while still able to get out and fill his track with a big foot." - Dustin Hurlbut

Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: oakview on January 17, 2020, 08:54:48 AM
Sure bears a strong resemblance to his relatives Ildeno and Friggio, doesn't he?  What % actual Chi is he?  All kidding aside, he does remind me of some of the popular Angus bulls of the 80's.  I can't think of a breed that has altered their original state more than Chis.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Cattle Cards on January 17, 2020, 02:24:47 PM
Sure bears a strong resemblance to his relatives Ildeno and Friggio, doesn't he?  What % actual Chi is he?  All kidding aside, he does remind me of some of the popular Angus bulls of the 80's.  I can't think of a breed that has altered their original state more than Chis.

If you had enlarged the picture, you would see that he's 16.63% Chianina and the rest, Angus.  Those promotional bulls at Denver are little to no Chi, or anything else for that matter.  They're mutts.  I've bred Heat Wave, Believe In Me, Hi Ho Silver & other clubby (some of them popular Denver promotional bulls) sired heifers to add size, power, clean them up and make them sound (and increase the % of Chianina)...just saying.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Jacob B on January 19, 2020, 07:15:24 AM
Thoughts on No Pain No Gain?
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: shortybreeder on January 19, 2020, 09:42:52 AM
I would like a report on Blaine Rodgers and Guyers " Chosen 1" bull too if anyone sees him

I am far from an expert on the clubby deal, but for what it's worth Chosen 1 was the only little black clubby bull who stood out to me. I also liked Follow Me, until I got to his feet. The pasterns looked a bit soft so I started to look closer and then the guy standing there jumped up and kicked shavings over the bull's feet. He seemed like his pasterns were just resting on the chips with his hooves being slightly deeper into the chips. That was just my impression though.

JSF Times Square was pretty easy to find, and JSF Nat Love really caught my eye during the pen show. Homedale had an OFS Red Cowboy x Sask. Outlaw who was really well made and looked pretty cool. Leveldale had a few nice looking bulls with Rolling Stone being a bit of a standout.
Waukaru Rawhide was pretty cool and their 9078 (STARR Red RX son) was a chunk from a distance, but I didn't look too closely.
Paint Valley had a pretty cool Byland Soggy Dog son that is a 3/4 brother to PVF Finding Favor.
The Pearl Valley Shorthorns pen of 3 were great from top to bottom, but the Outlaw daughter was the favorite of a lot of people. Personally I'm a bit partial to the All Seven's/Ripper daughter though. I'm looking forward to seeing how the Pick goes tonight for them.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: kiblercattle on January 19, 2020, 08:02:26 PM
Anyone see the angus bull Hf Alcatraz? If so what were your thoughts?
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: jconner2088 on January 20, 2020, 10:37:20 AM
Any pictures?
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: knabe on January 20, 2020, 12:12:55 PM
This calf here looks phenomenal


agree.  tiny head, big belly
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on January 20, 2020, 01:37:38 PM
This calf here looks phenomenal


agree.  tiny head, big belly

Traits I definitely value.   Head small enough to make it out on its own.  Belly big enough to consume enough low quality forage to not starve to death in the pasture.   Looks incredibly long from hook to pin as well. A really well balanced bull overall.  I watched the pen show from the house via live auctions tv and even as shitty as the picture quality was, the prominence of Times Square relative to his peers was clear.    I image just the possession side will cost a fella prolly 20 grand. Maybe more.

One thing for sure.   Saskvalley Tradition is a bull that’s gotta be used more.  Thermal Energy, Wallstreet, and now this bull- Times Square.   

In fact, if every SH cow in the country were bred to a Saskvalley bull, the overall quality of the breed triple overnight.   
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: knabe on January 20, 2020, 02:44:17 PM
In fact, if every SH cow in the country were bred to a Saskvalley bull, the overall quality of the breed triple overnight.


i've thought that for a very long time.  probably can't emphasize that enough.

http://muridale.com/tradition.html (http://muridale.com/tradition.html)

really liked bonanza and buster and major leroy and the diamond sparkle cow back in the day.

i can't remember which bull you had a bw problem with. but then you want more moderate cattle than all 3 of those can make.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: knabe on January 20, 2020, 02:47:41 PM
3 units of buster sold last year at their sale (homozygous polled)
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Medium Rare on January 20, 2020, 03:28:24 PM
Traits I definitely value.   Head small enough to make it out on its own.  Belly big enough to consume enough low quality forage to not starve to death in the pasture.   Looks incredibly long from hook to pin as well. A really well balanced bull overall.  I watched the pen show from the house via live auctions tv and even as shitty as the picture quality was, the prominence of Times Square relative to his peers was clear.    I image just the possession side will cost a fella prolly 20 grand. Maybe more.

One thing for sure.   Saskvalley Tradition is a bull that’s gotta be used more.  Thermal Energy, Wallstreet, and now this bull- Times Square.   

In fact, if every SH cow in the country were bred to a Saskvalley bull, the overall quality of the breed triple overnight.

I noticed him as a stand out on the video as well and would like to try him on a few in the future, so I hope it's made available.

Totally different pedigree, but I think the bull you bought semen on in last night's sale is fairly underrated.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: knabe on January 20, 2020, 04:35:46 PM
Looks incredibly long from hook to pin as well.


i don't think it's that.


i think it looks long because he's proportional, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on January 20, 2020, 05:18:28 PM
Looks incredibly long from hook to pin as well.



i don't think it's that.


i think it looks long because he's proportional, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3.

I’d agree with that for sure.  He’s a proportionally lengthy bull.  Appeared to be a good big longer than the other two bulls in pen of 3.

In fact, if every SH cow in the country were bred to a Saskvalley bull, the overall quality of the breed triple overnight.


i've thought that for a very long time.  probably can't emphasize that enough.

[url]http://muridale.com/tradition.html[/url] ([url]http://muridale.com/tradition.html[/url])

really liked bonanza and buster and major leroy and the diamond sparkle cow back in the day.

i can't remember which bull you had a bw problem with. but then you want more moderate cattle than all 3 of those can make.


Bonanza and Buster are functional beef cattle.  The other two you mention are much different type cattle. I’ve used a Bonanza son (yy Cartwright: great daughters still have 5) a buster son from Oregon that if he wouldn’t have broke his pecker would have got a lot more use and then Leroy son that was junk. Major Leroy said to be almost 2800lbs and has reports of 130 plus lb calves all over the globe.  The sparkle cow was over a ton and as open shouldered as you could make one.  This design along with the bw is just a nightmare combination.

I think the best cattle are all products of Saskvalley Ultra 12J, Bonanzas sire.  Traditions dam is a 12j daughter. Saskvalley Alamo bull that hung the moon for me that Ive since sold to Brock Eagon in Ohio was a linebred 12j out of a 12j daughter. Canadian CLRC used to show 12js influence in Alamo was over 30%.  SaskvalleyEditor bull I bought last year is a Banjo son. Banjos a 12j son and his dam goes to buster 14k. Saskvalley Stampede is 12j son.  Saskvalley Primo, sire of Cabrera, is a 12j son.  And I’m sure I’m missing many.  Look at the big sky bull JSF has been using, another bonanza son. Also at JsF, Bar N Ripper, who’s sired by Remedy, another bonanza son. These are 5 frame cattle that do what cattlemen expect.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on January 20, 2020, 06:00:30 PM
Traits I definitely value.   Head small enough to make it out on its own.  Belly big enough to consume enough low quality forage to not starve to death in the pasture.   Looks incredibly long from hook to pin as well. A really well balanced bull overall.  I watched the pen show from the house via live auctions tv and even as shitty as the picture quality was, the prominence of Times Square relative to his peers was clear.    I image just the possession side will cost a fella prolly 20 grand. Maybe more.

One thing for sure.   Saskvalley Tradition is a bull that’s gotta be used more.  Thermal Energy, Wallstreet, and now this bull- Times Square.   

In fact, if every SH cow in the country were bred to a Saskvalley bull, the overall quality of the breed triple overnight.

I noticed him as a stand out on the video as well and would like to try him on a few in the future, so I hope it's made available.

Totally different pedigree, but I think the bull you bought semen on in last night's sale is fairly underrated.

I’ve always like Reincarnation. And most all the jazz sons really.   Plan to use those straws on my Roan Ranger replacement heifers. 

https://shorthorn.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=4220114
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 20, 2020, 08:20:35 PM
My fave rave Canadian bulls are Buster 14K -complete outcross from what I can see-And Huberdale Mastercharge-I like the looks of JITS NEW bull he just has out-See how his calves come and if hes even available O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Okotoks on January 21, 2020, 11:38:36 AM
My fave rave Canadian bulls are Buster 14K -complete outcross from what I can see-And Huberdale Mastercharge-I like the looks of JITS NEW bull he just has out-See how his calves come and if hes even available O0
Huberdale Mastercharge was one of my favourite bulls back in the day. He was a senior herdsire at Saskvalley and shows up in the background of many of their cattle. He is in Saskvalley Ultra 12J's pedigree top and bottom. Saskvalley has done a great job of selecting cattle to suit a very rugged environment and the cattle they produce are sound and functional.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: E6 Durhams on January 23, 2020, 07:28:19 AM
Alamo has done great here. A few pics of calves just weaned. Pics were taken the day the were taken off the cow.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 23, 2020, 08:54:52 AM
2 calves O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Okotoks on January 23, 2020, 11:15:54 AM
Alamo has done great here. A few pics of calves just weaned. Pics were taken the day the were taken off the cow.
That roan calf is impressive, should make someone a hell of a good bull! (clapping)
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on January 23, 2020, 03:32:49 PM
Alamo sons averaged just shy of 10k in The Who’s your daddy sale.  I don’t know that there’s ever been a sire represented in that sale who’s sons have average more.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: E6 Durhams on January 24, 2020, 09:22:21 AM
Alamo has done great here. A few pics of calves just weaned. Pics were taken the day the were taken off the cow.
That roan calf is impressive, should make someone a hell of a good bull! (clapping)

Thank you. I sure hope so. Plan is to sell him at Ohio Beef Expo. Getting paperwork done today
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 25, 2020, 09:03:38 AM
Didnt hear about many display bulls-which used to be a huge deal at Denver for awhile on the non commercial side But every year Shirleys shorthorns still shows up in the pen show  with the thickest cattle of any breed-most are plusses today-but credit where credit is due-commercial guys who also have good cows for 4 h calves buy those bulls every year Bottom Line made the best natured cattle around In 2003 me and Stuart Manchester bought a bull from them, but he got hurt and he had to put him down O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Duncraggan on February 02, 2020, 12:10:19 PM
Why is that XBAR character allowed to remain on this site?
He talks the talk but has walked the walk! I think we have all become too used to 'watering down' the facts. We are becoming like politicians.
If you have a problem, voice your opinion, as long as you have data to back it up.
I have been disappointed in XBAR's sledging of JIT in a public forum though!
I believe you are the master of your own destiny, if you buy a bull that doesn't work for you, move on, don't sledge the breeder. You made the choice, don't blame the breeder!
JMO
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on February 03, 2020, 06:01:06 PM
“You made the choice, don’t blame the breeder.”


I’d agree with your conclusion provided the customer is privileged to one specific idealized condition- that condition being ‘perfect information,’ also known as ‘no hidden information.’

Perfect information can only exist if the seller most accurately informs the buyer as to the characteristics of the product, up to and including all the events that have previously occurred. Here, that would be the good, the bad, and the ugly associated with the particular genetics in question.

While there’s always going to be some element of chance, such as breaking a leg or getting struck by lightning etc, that will exists as a risk to the buyer, the risk or negative outcome incurred as a result of imperfect information -ie hidden information- should be placed solely with the producer.  When there are representations that omit important information that is intended to purposefully mislead the buyer, the only responsible/liable party is the seller.

More than anything what I hope to have accomplished is bringing additional information to the table in an attempt to offset the power imbalance created by a salesman over 2000 miles away who’s only willing to provide rose-colored imperfect information. 
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: SEA on February 04, 2020, 10:22:37 PM
Man, I sure wish this post was about 2020 Denver Bulls!   >:(
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on February 05, 2020, 06:10:49 AM
Amen-I also wish we had all those cool videos to view like Cattle.com used to create  O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on February 05, 2020, 06:42:55 AM
It’s all relevant as the underlying theme in any post about bulls is about potentially buying/using them.

The more transparency the industry has, the better off everyone will be— except of course for the salesmen.



Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: SEA on February 05, 2020, 10:03:10 AM
Amen-I also wish we had all those cool videos to view like Cattle.com used to create  O0

Me too, Kanabe!  I certainly enjoyed them.

I would like to hear some thoughts on NWSS Display Clubby Bulls 2020 also.  I have heard there were actually 4-5 new bulls that looked better than any bulls in the past 3-5 years.  Not just “Little Puds” and nothing hair and bone?    However, even though my reports came from a reputable source, they are about “Third Hand” and very limited. Wade Rogers is said to have two.  One of the Laughtner’s had had one that may have been raised by Sullivan’s?  I also heard there was a bull there from Bobby May.  No names were given.  Sorry, not much relevance here.  That is why I was hesitant to post.  I am in hopes this may provoke response and further dialogue on these bulls.   

Hoping other cattlemen might see these same bulls on display at other venues or at the bull studs soon.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: cowdoc1973 on February 05, 2020, 11:58:50 AM
How was Jungels sale?  What did Lot 16 (Times Square) bring and where did he go? Will there be semen offered to the general public on him.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Medium Rare on February 05, 2020, 12:36:36 PM
Watched from home, but I thought the sale went well and it sounded like bulls went in all directions. I believe Times Square brought $50k.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on February 05, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
Anybody seen times square? At least from the picture he doesnt look very wide made Anything in that price range will need to walk the walk with the baby talk O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on February 05, 2020, 03:49:42 PM
Bull sold to guy named Rusty Thompson from Missouri and ST Genetics in Texas.  I hear both conventional and sexed will be available soon.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Medium Rare on February 05, 2020, 06:14:09 PM
Bull sold to guy named Rusty Thompson from Missouri and ST Genetics in Texas.  I hear both conventional and sexed will be available soon.

I think you mean Rusty Merideth, and his brother, at Merideth Land and Cattle. They've collected quite a few well bred animals over the last few years.


Corrected spelling on the last name.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on February 05, 2020, 06:18:33 PM
Yes.  Thank you for correcting that. I combined two different names on the sale sheet. I had honestly never heard of em but with that kind of cash they’re bound to acquire some good ones.   
I haven’t seen Times Square in person- I’m hoping he’s only proportionally wide as opposed to being very wide.  The disproportion is the culprit of all the disfunction in the clubby cattle.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Shorthorn-Fed on February 05, 2020, 06:40:58 PM
Bull sold to guy named Rusty Thompson from Missouri and ST Genetics in Texas.  I hear both conventional and sexed will be available soon.
When I read this  was thinkin I must have went wild and paid 50k for a bull sight unseen !

Russ
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on February 05, 2020, 06:49:54 PM
Base width is not the culprit of-Purebred-Simms, Maines, Charolais, Limmis, Angus . Herefords even Beefmasters- Theyve cleared up a lot of Ills in those and other cattle-and the number of people who use them across countless types of cows is huge I go by what the commercial guys want them to look like too not the numbers chasing bean counters whos bulls on self feeders wiegh 1080 at a year with incredible EPDS-The commercial  cattle are thick, calve unassisted or dont make it-and frankly are much better doing cattle for the most part And I sold Shorthorn bulls in VA starting in the early 90s-In the era of the hardoing embarrassing Dairy Rats and Cow Killers that were the norm for the breed If you think they have to be clubby to have base width-then you may end up with a very limited market O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: BroncoFan on February 18, 2020, 01:00:42 PM
Man, I sure wish this post was about 2020 Denver Bulls!   >:(
If I was to just read these last couple pages of posts, I would think this thread was mostly about the Shorthorn breed.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on February 18, 2020, 04:59:52 PM
Would makes since given the largest following on this page are by shorthorn breeders or at least those than have an affinity for the Shorthorn breed. 

Equal good explanation would be that Times Square was likely the highest selling bull there at 50k so it would be reasonable for him to dominate this post.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: shortybreeder on February 18, 2020, 07:26:56 PM
Man, I sure wish this post was about 2020 Denver Bulls!   >:(
If I was to just read these last couple pages of posts, I would think this thread was mostly about the Shorthorn breed.
You are welcome to contribute some value rather than just complaining about the discussion of shorthorn bulls which were in Denver.

I forgot about Mark's Times Square question from earlier, but I did see him--i just wasn't able to post when I initially saw the question, so here's my brief opinion on him:
They had him placed amongst all the other red bulls they brought out, and it wasn't hard to pick him out. He just stood out, from his muscle going deep down his rear quarter, to his width over the top. Is he the next big thing? Idk, but from my perspective I didn't find a hole in him. I'm not a show guy though.. His full brother Wall Street hasn't particularly impressed me, and neither have his calves, so personally I'm gonna let someone else trial him first.
Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: BroncoFan on February 19, 2020, 11:24:05 AM
Man, I sure wish this post was about 2020 Denver Bulls!   >:(
If I was to just read these last couple pages of posts, I would think this thread was mostly about the Shorthorn breed.
You are welcome to contribute some value rather than just complaining about the discussion of shorthorn bulls which were in Denver.

I forgot about Mark's Times Square question from earlier, but I did see him--i just wasn't able to post when I initially saw the question, so here's my brief opinion on him:
They had him placed amongst all the other red bulls they brought out, and it wasn't hard to pick him out. He just stood out, from his muscle going deep down his rear quarter, to his width over the top. Is he the next big thing? Idk, but from my perspective I didn't find a hole in him. I'm not a show guy though.. His full brother Wall Street hasn't particularly impressed me, and neither have his calves, so personally I'm gonna let someone else trial him first.
Just my 2 cents.
I can’t contribute because I couldn’t make it to Denver this year. I was hoping to find out everyone’s thoughts on the clubby or Maine display bulls. I guess this is why I stopped checking this forum on a regular basis.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Weezie on February 19, 2020, 09:18:16 PM
Second hand here but I talked to some people and the overwhelming sentiment was that nothing really blew them away. That said Chosen 1 seemed to get some acclaim and Griswolds had a couple that were pretty cool. This was the year for the HIA sons so it should be interesting to see which ones click, if any.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: BroncoFan on February 19, 2020, 10:07:49 PM
Second hand here but I talked to some people and the overwhelming sentiment was that nothing really blew them away. That said Chosen 1 seemed to get some acclaim and Griswolds had a couple that were pretty cool. This was the year for the HIA sons so it should be interesting to see which ones click, if any.
Thank you!
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: nkotb on February 20, 2020, 03:29:04 PM
I was there and feel like that is an apt statement.  Overall, I thought the clubby bulls were underwhelming, a lot of puds for sure.  I thought Chosen 1 was cool, and Wade had a couple that would work, but nothing that just really set anyone apart.  There was some solid purebred/maternal bulls, but I cannot remember names.  It'd sure be nice to see one of the clubbier deals that had a little frame and grow to add.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on February 20, 2020, 08:13:37 PM
Thats starting to happen in the shows-people Like Jim Compton, Griener, Gargan,  and a growing number of  others are producing them-Needed change JMO O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on February 21, 2020, 10:32:59 AM
I’m sure breeding the moderate maternal types to framey club calf bulls will only work out for the best
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: BroncoFan on February 21, 2020, 01:01:09 PM
I think the clubby bulls are getting too moderate and are a dime a dozen. I guess time will tell which bulls will produce champions and which will never stay around.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on February 22, 2020, 02:31:25 PM
Actually its the other way around-The steers and heifers that are thick, show some real substance along with the goodies and are  not flatsided melting machines that cant raise a calf, Are getting more framy, sounder, and are placing Pay Attention its happening: in the Mecca of Club Calves TEXAS Also in Iowa and Wisconsin-Acksarban etc Even in the Shorthorn heifer and steer shows of the last year or so-Where Monte Soules and the click dont dominate anymore  and are starting to  get their asses kicked by cattle (and sons and daughters) of recent outcross non broken record cattle that are also functional in type in respect to the fact they raised the latest calves-and even come back and win cow calf shows at The Junior Nationals etc O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: SEA on February 23, 2020, 11:50:37 AM
I’m sure breeding the moderate maternal types to framey club calf bulls will only work out for the best

"Club Calf" Type bulls have been small framed, short spined, hairy, heavy boned, deep sided and display extreme muscle, for quite a long time.
 
They throw large calves (w/big bone), that are hard to calve out.  Most have little substance and growth.  Most are highly crossbred to the point of Mongrelism, thereby making the resulting calf crop very inconsistent.
They need bred to larger framed and longer spined cows that have some growth and substance to these type bulls work. 
This is why you yearly hear cattlemen complain that "All the Club Calf Bulls on Display in Denver are the Same", each year.

Due to rising feed cost and lower cattle markets, many cattlemen have moved to raising a more "moderate frame cow", that is deep ribbed and can sustain themselves on grass and stalks and less yellow corn $$.  These cows need bred to a different type of bull.  Only a small percentage of calves resulting from club calf bulls actually make "Good Show Steers" (half are heifers), therefore the majority of the offspring still have to be fed out and go to market.  Slow growing, inefficient PUDS just don't keep the banker away!  Also, many cattlemen that raised "Club Calves" 10-20 years ago, have since quit and gotten out.

Many other "Club Calf Breeders" still in the business are searching for a bull that has many of the same characteristics of current club calf bulls with bigger frame, longer spined, some smaller Birth Weights, and substance and GROWTH.

 
 
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: BroncoFan on February 23, 2020, 05:15:40 PM
I’m sure breeding the moderate maternal types to framey club calf bulls will only work out for the best

"Club Calf" Type bulls have been small framed, short spined, hairy, heavy boned, deep sided and display extreme muscle, for quite a long time.
 
They throw large calves (w/big bone), that are hard to calve out.  Most have little substance and growth.  Most are highly crossbred to the point of Mongrelism, thereby making the resulting calf crop very inconsistent.
They need bred to larger framed and longer spined cows that have some growth and substance to these type bulls work. 
This is why you yearly hear cattlemen complain that "All the Club Calf Bulls on Display in Denver are the Same", each year.

Due to rising feed cost and lower cattle markets, many cattlemen have moved to raising a more "moderate frame cow", that is deep ribbed and can sustain themselves on grass and stalks and less yellow corn $$.  These cows need bred to a different type of bull.  Only a small percentage of calves resulting from club calf bulls actually make "Good Show Steers" (half are heifers), therefore the majority of the offspring still have to be fed out and go to market.  Slow growing, inefficient PUDS just don't keep the banker away!  Also, many cattlemen that raised "Club Calves" 10-20 years ago, have since quit and gotten out.

Many other "Club Calf Breeders" still in the business are searching for a bull that has many of the same characteristics of current club calf bulls with bigger frame, longer spined, some smaller Birth Weights, and substance and GROWTH.
You said it better than I ever could. It amazes me when a clubby bred calf comes out weighing around 100lbs but only weans at 500lbs at weaning. More maternal higher % Maine, Shorthorn etc are working on clubby bred cows to give them some consistency, milking ability, maternal calving ease, growth, etc.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on February 24, 2020, 11:17:16 AM
I’m sure breeding the moderate maternal types to framey club calf bulls will only work out for the best

"Club Calf" Type bulls have been small framed, short spined, hairy, heavy boned, deep sided and display extreme muscle, for quite a long time.
 
They throw large calves (w/big bone), that are hard to calve out.  Most have little substance and growth.  Most are highly crossbred to the point of Mongrelism, thereby making the resulting calf crop very inconsistent.
They need bred to larger framed and longer spined cows that have some growth and substance to these type bulls work. 
This is why you yearly hear cattlemen complain that "All the Club Calf Bulls on Display in Denver are the Same", each year.

Due to rising feed cost and lower cattle markets, many cattlemen have moved to raising a more "moderate frame cow", that is deep ribbed and can sustain themselves on grass and stalks and less yellow corn $$.  These cows need bred to a different type of bull.  Only a small percentage of calves resulting from club calf bulls actually make "Good Show Steers" (half are heifers), therefore the majority of the offspring still have to be fed out and go to market.  Slow growing, inefficient PUDS just don't keep the banker away!  Also, many cattlemen that raised "Club Calves" 10-20 years ago, have since quit and gotten out.

Many other "Club Calf Breeders" still in the business are searching for a bull that has many of the same characteristics of current club calf bulls with bigger frame, longer spined, some smaller Birth Weights, and substance and GROWTH.

Hello captain obvious-

The shitshow will present itself when Tom and sally start breeding their short coupled little clubby cows to growthy bulls with more frame.

Save the economics argument— if it were about economics none of these genetics would even exist.  Sure there’s a few making money but overwhelming net negative industry for almost all.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on February 24, 2020, 05:37:31 PM
HERES SOME CLUBBY DINKS- The 2020 grand and reserve heifers at Badger and Grand and 1st place heifers at Iowa beef expo along with 4 or 5 others I didnt post :are all  out of 2 cows (both ex show heifers)The heifers ARE ALL 1000 pounds plus at a year etc The ones at Iowa-Badger were the right age-and were the heaviest WDAS in the whole show other than a couple escapees of the mayan calender That YW includes the massive white hiefer that won Acksarban last fall pictured as a calf last year at Badger Then there"s the little red wm  Hairball that won Iowa beef expo and previously reserve at badger-hes a calf-and looks like one albeit tremendous real performance and commercial "quality"-State Fair season he will look like a breed steer- PS the BIG growthy roan steer calf is a full sib to four or five heifers from 2019 (the roan in the photo that brought $8500 is one) He brought $17000-Three guesses where he went Texas Texas Texas-if you didnt guess Texas you aint as smart as you act LOL O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: BroncoFan on February 25, 2020, 08:58:43 AM
We have had to sell out of most of our shorthorn cows because either their feet didn’t hold up on our Wyoming summer range or they had too much pink on their udders that got sunburnt when the sun reflected off the snow.

We used Young Money quite a bit in the past who was basically half shorthorn. He’s steers looked great and did well as county fair steers. Most of the cows we put him on could milk like dairy cows and could calve an elephant. YM took away their milking ability and shrunk their pelvis’s.

I’m not opposed to using Shorthorn bulls to make show steers/heifers but give me ideas.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on February 25, 2020, 09:24:35 AM
Look no further than the thread above you DJS OUTSIDER-He goes back to the top Mckkees cow familys-Cherry (most dominant Nat Champ female ever) and Annadells-Along with Arsulu Meg-arguably the top doner in the last 25 years in terms of overall functional cattle that go on to raise calves make herd bulls whos sons daughters do the same same.https://shorthorn.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=4208833    There have been at least 10 winners this last year-MANY big sellers-The 3 I pictured above are all by him and full or 3/4 sibs Lately-the champ hiefer at Badger and Iowa Beef expo is one There have been a number of others He wasnt widely used but Jim Compton bought him and those  cattle started it Laughtner has since bought him from Compton and he is a pretty big hit-Semen sales wise The cows in his pedigree including the Stangle dam of 20 20 back there ALL were functional-maternal THICK cattle O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: Medium Rare on February 25, 2020, 09:50:00 AM
Is there a mature picture of Outsider?
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: SEA on February 25, 2020, 10:36:45 AM
It’s all relevant as the underlying theme in any post about bulls is about potentially buying/using them.

The more transparency the industry has, the better off everyone will be— except of course for the salesmen.

XBAR:
1. I am tired of your constant negativity on this site towards other posters, me included.
If you can’t say something good or add to a post, perhaps it is better to not say/wriite anything at all.
2. The relevancy of this post is...2020 Denver Bulls.  NOT whatever Shorthorn bull you care to talk about.
3. What you did is called “Stealing A Thread”.  It is an act of posting on someone else’s thread and “Changing the Subject” stated and started by another individual.   It is considered “Disrespectful” in most circles.  In this case disrespectful to “Shortybreeder”.
4. Regardless, of your opinion, this site is for all cattle people and their topics.  It is NOT a “SHORTHORN MOSTLY” site.  If you do not care for a particular post, simply scroll down.  If you want to start a discussion about Shorthorns or something else cattle related.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: SEA on February 25, 2020, 11:24:06 AM
I’m sure breeding the moderate maternal types to framey club calf bulls will only work out for the best

"Club Calf" Type bulls have been small framed, short spined, hairy, heavy boned, deep sided and display extreme muscle, for quite a long time.
 
They throw large calves (w/big bone), that are hard to calve out.  Most have little substance and growth.  Most are highly crossbred to the point of Mongrelism, thereby making the resulting calf crop very inconsistent.
They need bred to larger framed and longer spined cows that have some growth and substance to these type bulls work. 
This is why you yearly hear cattlemen complain that "All the Club Calf Bulls on Display in Denver are the Same", each year.

Due to rising feed cost and lower cattle markets, many cattlemen have moved to raising a more "moderate frame cow", that is deep ribbed and can sustain themselves on grass and stalks and less yellow corn $$.  These cows need bred to a different type of bull.  Only a small percentage of calves resulting from club calf bulls actually make "Good Show Steers" (half are heifers), therefore the majority of the offspring still have to be fed out and go to market.  Slow growing, inefficient PUDS just don't keep the banker away!  Also, many cattlemen that raised "Club Calves" 10-20 years ago, have since quit and gotten out.

Many other "Club Calf Breeders" still in the business are searching for a bull that has many of the same characteristics of current club calf bulls with bigger frame, longer spined, some smaller Birth Weights, and substance and GROWTH.

Hello captain obvious-

The shitshow will present itself when Tom and sally start breeding their short coupled little clubby cows to growthy bulls with more frame.

Save the economics argument— if it were about economics none of these genetics would even exist.  Sure there’s a few making money but overwhelming net negative industry for almost all.

To Canadian XBAR,

Needless to say, I DO NOT LIKE BEING TALKED DOWN TO BY YOU NOR YOUR USE OF BULLYING AND NAME CALLING!  Your negative comments are unwarranted many times just plain wrong or ridiculous.
Sorry, but my post is referring to your statement in the post above.  Maybe you did not understand the POINT of my post I wrote in response. 

Perhaps I should have written: 

To: Mr. XBAR,
There are NO LARGE FRAMED, CLUBBY BULLS WITH AT LEAST SOME PERFORMANCE AND SUBSTANCE being promoted today.   That is the type of bull the clubby breeders are looking for and trying to “find” and “discuss” on this thread.

**** SHOW?!  You have NO KNOWLEDGE of my cows or many other cattle producers.  So, please refrain from your ignorant and remarks about other peoples cattle.  Especially, those which you have no personal experience of. 

The WORST BULLS that I have ever used were SHORTHORNS!  Going back to your infamous DOUBLE STUFF BULLS and his generations of offspring!  TH, PHA, huge shoulders that flail out, small feet that point out, huge boned, high birthweight, no milk, small pelvic areas in replacements, NO GROWTH and “Docks at the market” are what made the “Club Calf Bulls” and “many pedigrees of Shorthorn”, what they are today!  Many cattlemen (not just club calf producers), vets, and  embryologists, that YES, I know personally and of their experiences/stories, have totally stopped using Shorthorn bulls, due to the “Train Wrecks” that they have EXPERIENCED”.

Having said the above concerning Shorthorn, I am not one of the Shorthorn HATERS.  I have used them (and had some terrible results “back-in-the-day”.  However, not all Shorthorn and Shorthorn pedigrees are the same.  I think they have their place as do most breeds.  I still do use them on occasion.  But only after research, and only certain pedigrees. 
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: -XBAR- on February 25, 2020, 12:32:28 PM
I live in Texas, not Canada.

Only because of your lack of wherewithal did you not recognize the bull I mentioned WAS in Denver 2020.

I have no affiliation with the bull Double Stuff.  He’s certainly not my bull. 

You’re the only person in this thread to get off topic.

Now pull yourself together, quit being disrespectful, and focus.
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: SEA on February 25, 2020, 02:06:21 PM
I live in Texas, not Canada.

Only because of your lack of wherewithal did you not recognize the bull I mentioned WAS in Denver 2020.

I have no affiliation with the bull Double Stuff.  He’s certainly not my bull. 

You’re the only person in this thread to get off topic.

Now pull yourself together, quit being disrespectful, and focus.

XBAR,

Sorry about your location.  I thought Sackvalley was in Canada.  Never heard of a Sackvalleyo 8A, Texas.  Plus, no where in the top left hand corner of your avatar, is it written, Saskvalley Alamo 8A, Texas.  I am sure it is my loss.  I also do not know of many Shorthorn Breeders in Texas as to me, the Texas cattlemen are know for Char Cross and Eared Cattle.  I stand corrected.

Also, I guess you don’t read and comprehend or for that matter, remember to well. 

For one I never said YOU WERE AFFILIATED with the Double Stuff bull.  I was making mention of him as related to the Shorthorn Breed that you write about continuously.  Detailing his impact on your wonderful Shorthorn breed and the club calf industry.  NO DIFFERENCE!

Second, if you care to go back to the beginning of this post, you can read ALL the Shorthorn bulls that you have written about.  ONCE AGAIN, the thread is about 2020 Denver Display Bulls.

I shall totally disregard your once again, “Name Calling and Negative” remarks at the end of your last post, directed at me.


Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on February 25, 2020, 06:34:30 PM
Is there a mature picture of Outsider?   /// I would guess Laughtner or someone will have one from the bull stud-Seems like hes gonna spend a lot of time there-Quad K shorthorns in Ill live near Steck and had him as a walking bull for several years-Won Ill shows this year and two divisions at the Nat Jr show this year with 2 daughters O0
Title: Re: 2020 Denver Bulls
Post by: mark tenenbaum on February 27, 2020, 02:11:27 PM
I live in Texas, not Canada.

Only because of your lack of wherewithal did you not recognize the bull I mentioned WAS in Denver 2020.

I have no affiliation with the bull Double Stuff.  He’s certainly not my bull. 

You’re the only person in this thread to get off topic.

Now pull yourself together, quit being disrespectful, and focus.

XBAR,

Sorry about your location.  I thought Sackvalley was in Canada.  Never heard of a Sackvalleyo 8A, Texas.  Plus, no where in the top left hand corner of your avatar, is it written, Saskvalley Alamo 8A, Texas.  I am sure it is my loss.  I also do not know of many Shorthorn Breeders in Texas as to me, the Texas cattlemen are know for Char Cross and Eared Cattle.  I stand corrected.

Also, I guess you don’t read and comprehend or for that matter, remember to well. 

For one I never said YOU WERE AFFILIATED with the Double Stuff bull.  I was making mention of him as related to the Shorthorn Breed that you write about continuously.  Detailing his impact on your wonderful Shorthorn breed and the club calf industry.  NO DIFFERENCE!

Second, if you care to go back to the beginning of this post, you can read ALL the Shorthorn bulls that you have written about.  ONCE AGAIN, the thread is about 2020 Denver Display Bulls.

I shall totally disregard your once again, “Name Calling and Negative” remarks at the end of your last post, directed at me.///////  [url]http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/double-stuff/[/url] ([url]http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/double-stuff/[/url]) " Even though some of the Double Stuff progeny may not have been the most fertile, or productive , some good things can appear when his genetics are blended with others. This is one good reason that you shouldn't put all descendants of a line in the same basket and call them all bad. This is hardly ever true." JIT Double Stuff Thread  (clapping) (clapping) JMO A VERY GOOD ASSESMENT OF CATTLE IN GENERAL
       JIT HAD SOME OF THE BETTER STUFF VISION D TROUBLE CATTLE BACK IN THE DAY-Wish I had semen on the white bull he pictured in the thread above O0 (thumbsup)