Steer Planet - Show Steers and Club Calves Forum

Steer Planet Chat => The Big Show => Topic started by: aj on April 17, 2019, 08:30:23 AM

Title: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: aj on April 17, 2019, 08:30:23 AM
Has there ever been a solid red bull that sired good show cattle in numbers?
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: oakview on April 17, 2019, 09:20:57 AM
Rodeo Drive, Bapton Constructor (most noted bull of his era), several of his sons including Louada Aristocrat, Kenmar Ransom 32Z (sire of G-9 and several others), Carona Fascination, lots of them.  These are only a few I thought of in about 30 seconds. 
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: GM on April 17, 2019, 09:29:51 AM
Bapton constructor
Kenmar Ransom
2975
Ayatollah
Rodeo Drive
Instant Enticer
Red Riders Drive
SULL Red Knight

Solid red bulls siring show cattle in numbers (assuming Red knight continues - 174 registered offspring last two years))...depends on what generation you’re after I guess  (lol)
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: E6 Durhams on April 17, 2019, 09:33:38 AM
Red Knight was the soundest, most fluid moving bull ive seen in maybe ever. He looked like a million bucks at Louisville as yearling. just about as balanced as you could make one.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: GM on April 17, 2019, 09:39:01 AM
Red Knight was the soundest, most fluid moving bull ive seen in maybe ever. He looked like a million bucks at Louisville as yearling. just about as balanced as you could make one.
I agree.  I saw him at Louisville and he was incredible.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: oakview on April 17, 2019, 10:46:21 AM
I guess you could add CF Solution to the list!  He's sired a few, including Red Knight.  They say that what goes around comes around.  I hope Ayatollah never falls into that category.  Ugliest bull in the history of display bulls at Denver. 
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Medium Rare on April 17, 2019, 11:23:50 AM
Red Knight, Red Reward, Red Stallion, Red Blood, Red Demand, Payday, and Hot Commodity come to mind as current bulls.

Availability and the cows they got used on surely affected their individual success/use ratio.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: E6 Durhams on April 17, 2019, 11:44:48 AM
I guess you could add CF Solution to the list!  He's sired a few, including Red Knight.  They say that what goes around comes around.  I hope Ayatollah never falls into that category.  Ugliest bull in the history of display bulls at Denver.


Lol.

I never saw solution in person but for Trump lines go, he may have made more better ones than Trump himself. The right eye matching cattle up with each other is an art form. No college course or seminar can teach it in my opinion. You gotta see the results in your mind a year ahead of time. And if you screw it up, congrats, you just wasted two years of your time and who knows how much is money left on the table.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: mark tenenbaum on April 17, 2019, 05:25:27 PM
Byland Dazzler ,  Deertrail Awesome, Shadybrook Traildriver,4 S Impact Shaker, lately GFS creole, His sons Charisma and Bellringer,Cyt Maxum, O0
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: E6 Durhams on April 17, 2019, 10:11:57 PM
What about Sodhouse Pecker Red? What did he sire? Anybody have any calf results? I heard from a neighbor that he was a TH Carrier but I can’t confirm. But look how big our moon is! Owwwwwww!!!!!!! Reporting live from Kansas Trump country, this is AJ Hannity.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: E6 Durhams on April 17, 2019, 10:13:31 PM
Thanks in advance
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: E6 Durhams on April 17, 2019, 10:13:46 PM
Bump
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: aj on April 18, 2019, 08:55:41 AM
Sodhouse Pepper Red AR55271. sired 38 calves. Have daughters in my herd. Nobody can believe how big our moon is.......for such a small town.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: aj on April 18, 2019, 08:57:26 AM
He was triple clean.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: aj on April 18, 2019, 09:06:01 AM
Are the Thermal Image calves attractive. I think that was his name.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: kiblercattle on April 18, 2019, 01:13:46 PM
A Red Bull that I always liked was boxer. But I don’t know if he sired very many class winners. Maybe somebody could chime in on that?
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: oakview on April 18, 2019, 02:46:41 PM
To the person that "Karmad" me that Solution and hc aren't red, I read AJ's thread title as saying pretty much all red bull that sired show winners.  If Solution isn't pretty much red, I must be thinking of a different one than you.  Who is hc?
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: redcows on April 18, 2019, 02:53:16 PM
Charisma has sired lots of Shorthorn winners up to National levels, as well as Shorthorn Plus and Maintainers.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: aj on April 18, 2019, 03:47:21 PM
I wasn't sure what the technical definition of red is. Seems like we ran through this once before. Would a red Shorthorn bull be homo red if he sired only solid red calves. My personal goal is to develop cattle that are solid red.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: shortybreeder on April 18, 2019, 05:43:05 PM
I wasn't sure what the technical definition of red is. Seems like we ran through this once before. Would a red Shorthorn bull be homo red if he sired only solid red calves. My personal goal is to develop cattle that are solid red.
A red shorthorn bull is homo red if he's solid red. That's about the simplest genetic pattern in cattle breeding.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: aj on April 19, 2019, 08:08:14 AM
I was just pondering........if I did AI cows again what bull would I use. I would like a red bull with a bwt 90 or less, easy keeping moderate framed that sired just enough style for shorthorn plus classes. The one bull I have Sodhouse Stylist is really throwing some neat cattle and I wanted to build on that. I wondered about that Bretz bull.......maybe called Red Cloud or sired by Red Cloud but I'm not sure about the pattern of his calves.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: -XBAR- on April 19, 2019, 09:20:40 AM
 You’re going to have to play with fire to get the results you’re looking for there.  A conundrum for us all.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: -XBAR- on April 19, 2019, 09:26:43 AM
I wasn't sure what the technical definition of red is. Seems like we ran through this once before. Would a red Shorthorn bull be homo red if he sired only solid red calves. My personal goal is to develop cattle that are solid red.

Even those that are rwm are homozygous red.   

Just like Herefords, they have two red alleles (bb)
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: aj on April 19, 2019, 12:51:05 PM
Red Cloud 7060
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: aj on April 19, 2019, 12:53:01 PM
Byland Mission?
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: oakview on April 19, 2019, 03:28:22 PM
I don't know as if Mission has sired many show winners. 
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: aj on April 19, 2019, 05:20:13 PM
I'm sure that's the case. Bolze told me that he liked the type of 7060 and Byland Mission. They had a look. In order to win the big time plus shows......they have to be black and they are th carriers 90% of time. i don't want to go there.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: oakview on April 19, 2019, 05:33:24 PM
I hate to tell you this, but you and I are never going to win big time shows, + or otherwise.  I don't care if we use a pink and blue bull.  Mission seemed to do a good job for Don, might be a little big for some operations.  We're both old enough to do what we want and who cares?
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: aj on April 19, 2019, 06:10:42 PM
Good point.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Medium Rare on April 19, 2019, 07:50:59 PM
How about Kane Captain AJ?

He's available to all, affordable, Red, and has put a few class winners out there in limited use on big time show lines. Pedigree is not high bw or the typical main stream Trump line breeding.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: GM on April 19, 2019, 10:12:17 PM
AJ, from what I recall in your ads in SC you’ve been bold in your bull selection over the years.  Why not be bold again?  Take a risk on something more modern than Mission or 7060 (both of whom are products of the mid 90’s).  There are plenty of red bulls with style and substance out there who were born in the last 5-7 years that could be different enough to be unique and bet on.  With enough volume you’re bound to get 1 or 2 that are good enough to have fun showing...while still being different.  Or, go back further than Mid 90’s and grab a pre-frame race red bull who was under utilized due to the type change and see what an entire calf crop would bring.  Surprise everyone, and then post pictures.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: mark tenenbaum on April 20, 2019, 06:23:05 AM
Heres a couple red ones that have sired some good ones-The first young bull on cows is now available hes edging towards being a trait leader in several categories from jump st-See Dales ad in the April Country with stats-HorCommodity out of a really nice Wildside  female that goes back to THREE-Pacer Performance dams-Mission, Golds everybody is back there on him No 3- The PLCC Red bull by K Kim Gold Version has been used almost exclusively on commercial cows in Montana but has sired the grand champ bull at the Montana big show (6 month old calf) and a bunch of commercial bulls, bunch of good daughters O0
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: (WRS) on April 20, 2019, 11:41:23 AM
Are the Thermal Image calves attractive. I think that was his name.

I think you are thinking of Thermal Energy AJ. If so, the lot 5 bull that Bowman's sold in their November sale sold for over 40K. I saw him and I thought he was pretty neat. Super sound, functional, and very nicely designed in his pattern. I wonder if that cow, Maggie 73R, didn't have as much to do with that bull than Thermal Energy. Maggie 73R has made numerous high quality herd bulls Task Force, Maximus, Banjo, etc . Other than that bull, there haven't been a lot of Thermal Energies that blew me away. That being said sample size is low and Thermal Energy hasn't been put on many Show Cows.

Your best bet if you want red is to go the HC or Red Reward genetics. Sons out of either one of these bulls may be able to accomplish what you are looking for.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Doc on April 20, 2019, 02:43:00 PM
I'll throw in SLF Red Hot Commodity. He is loaded with calving ease with being sired by Hot Commodity and his dam is a Red Demand dtr out of a Red Reward cow. Then throw in Destiny Best cow family. He has sired both Champions at the 2019 TN Agribition sale in his first crop. Definitely throws style and good rib shape with a good hip also. With his semen at $25/straw and no certificates that makes him affordable for everyone. Has great EPD's to back him up also.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: E6 Durhams on April 20, 2019, 03:00:31 PM
Buy some semen on the old Red Bull, Trump III. Make AJ Great Again. Steerplanet grin.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: E6 Durhams on April 20, 2019, 03:01:54 PM
I'll throw in SLF Red Hot Commodity. He is loaded with calving ease with being sired by Hot Commodity and his dam is a Red Demand dtr out of a Red Reward cow. Then throw in Destiny Best cow family. He has sired both Champions at the 2019 TN Agribition sale in his first crop. Definitely throws style and good rib shape with a good hip also. With his semen at $25/straw and no certificates that makes him affordable for everyone. Has great EPD's to back him up also.

Where is semen available? He looks like a good heifer bull to sample
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Doc on April 20, 2019, 04:34:01 PM
I'll throw in SLF Red Hot Commodity. He is loaded with calving ease with being sired by Hot Commodity and his dam is a Red Demand dtr out of a Red Reward cow. Then throw in Destiny Best cow family. He has sired both Champions at the 2019 TN Agribition sale in his first crop. Definitely throws style and good rib shape with a good hip also. With his semen at $25/straw and no certificates that makes him affordable for everyone. Has great EPD's to back him up also.

Where is semen available? He looks like a good heifer bull to sample
The semen is through me. We are jumping him this coming week. We have been very pleased with his calves out of the purebred and the commercial cows both.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Doc on April 20, 2019, 04:36:42 PM
Buy some semen on the old Red Bull, Trump III. Make AJ Great Again. Steerplanet grin.

I can hook him up with some. I don't have much left but I do have some. He actually made some pretty decent daughters. I hated when I had to ship him.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: mark tenenbaum on April 20, 2019, 05:43:06 PM
I'll throw in SLF Red Hot Commodity. He is loaded with calving ease with being sired by Hot Commodity and his dam is a Red Demand dtr out of a Red Reward cow. Then throw in Destiny Best cow family. He has sired both Champions at the 2019 TN Agribition sale in his first crop. Definitely throws style and good rib shape with a good hip also. With his semen at $25/straw and no certificates that makes him affordable for everyone. Has great EPD's to back him up also.
/// His full sister looked stouter than him but thats pictures-What ever happened to her? O0
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Doc on April 20, 2019, 06:04:46 PM
I'll throw in SLF Red Hot Commodity. He is loaded with calving ease with being sired by Hot Commodity and his dam is a Red Demand dtr out of a Red Reward cow. Then throw in Destiny Best cow family. He has sired both Champions at the 2019 TN Agribition sale in his first crop. Definitely throws style and good rib shape with a good hip also. With his semen at $25/straw and no certificates that makes him affordable for everyone. Has great EPD's to back him up also.
/// His full sister looked stouter than him but thats pictures-What ever happened to her? O0

Still kicking out calves. Weaned a real nice November, solid red Hill Haven Distinction bull calf off of her a couple of weeks ago. Yea, Red Hot is thicker than what the picture shows. He puts a real nice hip on his calves that carries down into their lower 1/4 real well. Not saying he is club calf thick but he is thick enough to get the job done for what we want him to do. Him and his calves look good enough that Curtis and Wes Wise wanted to lease him.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: mark tenenbaum on April 21, 2019, 07:46:12 PM
Charisma has sired lots of Shorthorn winners up to National levels, as well as Shorthorn Plus and Maintainers./// He has a son called Outsider that is really siring some good ones and CAN BE USED BY ANY AND ALL MERE MORTALS: I like him better than Charisma-wait till some of Comptons come out next year-This white daughter as Ive said many times is maybe the most NATURALLY-honest POWERFULL females of anything out there-she:ll make a cow just like her andescedents This was her in real bad conditions back at the Iowa beef expo and in a full blown heat-Saw a recent picture on facebook couldnt get it to load-look out those with heifers that "are yearlings" HA HA-and are fat and done-She has a huge gas tank and LLEGIT JUNK IN THE TRUNK O0
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: coyote on April 22, 2019, 09:58:15 AM
this is a Muridale Thermal Energy son that was grand Champion in Australia.

Sprys Extra Special N61
(Australia)
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: aj on April 23, 2019, 02:49:56 PM
Sounds like some good ideas.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: mbigelow on April 23, 2019, 10:21:41 PM
Cf sonic, ar su lu tonic, jfs goldenrod, crooked post stockman, jr legend, lc diamond cutter, chs royalty,  dunbeacon venture, sc irish mark, ideal irish, i will try to think of some more.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Doc on April 24, 2019, 04:55:48 AM
Cf sonic, ar su lu tonic, jfs goldenrod, crooked post stockman, jr legend, lc diamond cutter, chs royalty,  dunbeacon venture, sc irish mark, ideal irish, i will try to think of some more.

If you are going by AJ's original specs, most of these wouldn't sire a class winner in a show today. They might have sired some in their day but they wouldn't sire the class winners today in my opinion. I owned Irish Marc and then sold him after 3 years because the calves were ok, just not great ones. At the time I owned JJ Denim, NPS Stride, part of NPS Durango, Stonelea Winchester and SC Irish Marc. Didn't need all those bulls and Irish Marc was the one that I decided to sell based on his calves.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: aj on April 24, 2019, 08:35:48 AM
Duke of Dublin crossed my mind also. But I can't remember his defect status. He was probably horned......which may not be all that bad.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Doc on April 24, 2019, 07:50:29 PM
Duke of Dublin crossed my mind also. But I can't remember his defect status. He was probably horned......which may not be all that bad.

Duke was definitely horned, pretty sure clean on all 3 and I always like my Duke daughters.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: justintime on April 24, 2019, 10:05:28 PM
Duke of Dublin crossed my mind also. But I can't remember his defect status. He was probably horned......which may not be all that bad.

Duke was definitely horned, pretty sure clean on all 3 and I always like my Duke daughters.

Yup. Duke was horned, but we seemed to get polled calves if the dam was polled. This was also the case when we used Irish Mist on polled cows. Duke had been dehorned when we got him in Ireland, but we did have some full Irish calves from him that had horns, but they were loose, that is, they flopped on their heads, and were not attached to the skull. They were like big scurs but smaller than horns usually are. Maybe they were closer to being scurs than actual horns, I am not sure.
And yes, Duke was also clean for all 3 defects.
I was just thinking a few days ago, that I should use him on a few cows again. Duke was incredibly quiet and his calves were the same way. When I drove into the pasture, Duke would walk to my truck and stick his big head into the open window and lay it in my lap. I was scratch his head and he would not move. This became a normal thing for us, every time he saw the truck coming into the pasture. Once he was done breeding cows, all I had to do was drive into the pasture with the trailer on, and open the end gate and he would walk in. He seemed to know when his work was done.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: GM on April 24, 2019, 11:00:37 PM
Would he have too much frame for the current show ring?  I recall he sired the national champion TNT Fastrack who had to be a frame 9 or 10.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Gargan on April 25, 2019, 08:14:49 AM
What about shadybrook scotty? Was he considered an all red?
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: mark tenenbaum on April 25, 2019, 09:56:15 AM
Fastrack got some of that from Manitoba Sunrise a 3000 plus pound bull O0
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Duncraggan on April 28, 2019, 09:10:22 AM
What about shadybrook scotty? Was he considered an all red?
We used him fairly heavily and to good effect! That white flank was quite hereditary!
Can't recall a red calf, they all seemed to have white on them. Google 'Duncraggan Tarantino', a bull we bred, used, and collected for further use.
If I remember correctly he was a finalist in the region for 'Champion of the World' a few years ago!
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Gargan on April 28, 2019, 04:55:15 PM
What about shadybrook scotty? Was he considered an all red?
We used him fairly heavily and to good effect! That white flank was quite hereditary!
Can't recall a red calf, they all seemed to have white on them. Google 'Duncraggan Tarantino', a bull we bred, used, and collected for further use.
If I remember correctly he was a finalist in the region for 'Champion of the World' a few years ago!
Did you find scotty throw consistent low birthweights?
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: mark tenenbaum on April 28, 2019, 05:17:22 PM
What about shadybrook scotty? Was he considered an all red?//// Not ALL red but ALLLLL GOOD O0
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: oakview on April 29, 2019, 12:46:26 PM
Duke of Dulbin's EPDs are unavailable on the ASA website.  I had heard his daughters weren't the best milkers.  Is that true?  How about birth EPD?  I see Fastrak is almost + 8 for BEPD.  I had a couple Duke calves years ago that were pretty good.  KaDel Urice sold a few bull calves at the Iowa Beef Expo many years ago that were real good.  I have full Irish semen in the tanks from Ultimate Type, Highler 202, Improver 3rd, High Octane, Leggs, Quane, Leader 18th, Leader 13th, Duke, Prime Time, Highler 204, and Guiness.  I haven't used any other than Leader 18th for many years, though I always liked the Irish calves I had.  Maybe the time is right to use them again?  I just loved the Leader 18th and Ultimate Type cows I had. 
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: -XBAR- on April 29, 2019, 01:53:46 PM
Easy way around the ASA’s petty BS—If you find yourself unable to view a particular animals EpDs because the association has blocked them,  click on progeny and find one that isn’t blocked.  On the progeny’s EPD page,  there is a row that shows the sires EPDs.   

Unbelievably absurd to block accessibility to particular epds if those particular epds are still being used in the EPD runs.   They need to either block them AND  remove said data from the database OR not block any epds and leave the data as is. The fact that these numbers are still used in the current EPD runs completely undermines their whole excuse for having them blocked in the database. 
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: redcows on April 29, 2019, 02:12:26 PM
I think the blocking is for those that record on the TOC program and WHR breeders' epd's show up. Could be wrong. I think they should all show.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Willow Springs on April 29, 2019, 02:19:59 PM
The other way to find EPD's is to go to the Canadian Shorthorn Digital Beef site. Nothing blocked there and EPD's are the same, just have different within breed percentiles for each country.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: -XBAR- on April 29, 2019, 04:59:59 PM
I think the blocking is for those that record on the TOC program and WHR breeders' epd's show up. Could be wrong. I think they should all show.

If they’re going to accept data from TOC breeders, then the EPD that is generated from said data needs to be visible to all. 

 The cases I’m speaking to are in many times from breeders who have passed 20 years ago.   Like what is the significance of blocking EPD’s on animals who were at their last active date owned by people who expired long before WHR was even a thing.   
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Medium Rare on April 29, 2019, 07:28:46 PM
If they’re going to accept data from TOC breeders, then the EPD that is generated from said data needs to be visible to all. 

 The cases I’m speaking to are in many times from breeders who have passed 20 years ago.   Like what is the significance of blocking EPD’s on animals who were at their last active date owned by people who expired long before WHR was even a thing.

Collecting the data for use in the system and then attempting to hide it from us has never made sense to me. I feel like I've paid my dues and WHR fees to use the system and should be able to see any animal in the database. Some of the old bulls didn't/don't have the correct owners listed so they were even being hidden from the owners. Others don't even have an owner listed and we get to see them.

The actual epds can be entertaining as well. You can observe some of them having significant movements with no recent calves or relatives reporting data. As of today, some of them have epds that are well beyond outliers. I've considered using a few of them I have in the tank just to see what happens. I assume I'd be forced to pay $80-100 for the genetics test just to register the calf and then they'll magically "fix" those crazy outlier epds I used the bull for in the first place.

Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Doc on April 29, 2019, 07:47:31 PM
Duke of Dulbin's EPDs are unavailable on the ASA website.  I had heard his daughters weren't the best milkers.  Is that true?  How about birth EPD?  I see Fastrak is almost + 8 for BEPD.  I had a couple Duke calves years ago that were pretty good.  KaDel Urice sold a few bull calves at the Iowa Beef Expo many years ago that were real good.  I have full Irish semen in the tanks from Ultimate Type, Highler 202, Improver 3rd, High Octane, Leggs, Quane, Leader 18th, Leader 13th, Duke, Prime Time, Highler 204, and Guiness.  I haven't used any other than Leader 18th for many years, though I always liked the Irish calves I had.  Maybe the time is right to use them again?  I just loved the Leader 18th and Ultimate Type cows I had.

The Duke dtrs I had all milked good. Duke, Prime Time, Irish Mist and Improver were my favorites. I got along pretty good with UT on heifers. Highler 202 I liked when I saw him, but his progeny did the least for me. Hazel Leap was another one that I had a couple pretty good daughters of.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: mark tenenbaum on April 29, 2019, 08:10:26 PM
I havent seen many-But really liked the Lazy D Quanes I have seen There was a cow at Brise Wallades from Brockmueller that I went to the monn on and got outbid -really good way ahead of her time-Looked like a real thick but EZ calving deal There was a bull called Improvers Stride that had a brother in blood-Brookwood Galadiator. I think Mcgills bull and some others in Tennesee etc go back to him-Ended up with 20 straws on him I may test a straw to see if he has any TH Pha etc-Stride was clean I think O0
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Doc on April 29, 2019, 09:33:25 PM
I havent seen many-But really liked the Lazy D Quanes I have seen There was a cow at Brise Wallades from Brockmueller that I went to the monn on and got outbid -really good way ahead of her time-Looked like a real thick but EZ calving deal There was a bull called Improvers Stride that had a brother in blood-Brookwood Galadiator. I think Mcgills bull and some others in Tennesee etc go back to him-Ended up with 20 straws on him I may test a straw to see if he has any TH Pha etc-Stride was clean I think O0

I owned Stride. He was a DS carrier. He was TH clean, even though they have him listed as probable. I bought him and Durango when I bought the Willard Keith herd. Stride and Durango were 2 of the first cattle that Beever did TH testing on in the beginning. I had some really good daughters of him and he sired a steer that did real well in a feed out in IN.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: mark tenenbaum on April 29, 2019, 10:23:33 PM
What about Lazy D Quanes-There was a really good daughter I wanted at Bruce Wallaces sale that I think Phil Hamiton of Cherokee Trailer Sales outbid me on-Man was that female good There was a young breeder lady from Austraila who really wanted to see Connells Club Calves etc (Steve Mcgill kept trying to point her towards dual cattle and she responded-"too much dairy influence for me": HAD TO BE THERE. Anyway-she and I concurred that that was A GREAT FEMALE-The few straws I have came from you-What were they like?
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Doc on April 30, 2019, 04:58:14 AM
What about Lazy D Quanes-There was a really good daughter I wanted at Bruce Wallaces sale that I think Phil Hamiton of Cherokee Trailer Sales outbid me on-Man was that female good There was a young breeder lady from Austraila who really wanted to see Connells Club Calves etc (Steve Mcgill kept trying to point her towards dual cattle and she responded-"too much dairy influence for me": HAD TO BE THERE. Anyway-she and I concurred that that was A GREAT FEMALE-The few straws I have came from you-What were they like?

 Phil didn't own Cherokee Trailer. Another guy in TN that owned Shorthorns did. I don't remember that particular cow, but Phil owned a lot of good ones over the years. Brent Elam and I went to the 3W dispersal and bought several there for him. Phil's big problem was that if he really like them, then he would keep them in the horse stables in a 12 x 12 stall ( he was big into Standard bred horses) where he could drive in anytime on his golf cart and be able to look at them. When he got ready to sell one he would just sell for whatever no matter what it cost him. No rhyme or reason. Mike Hix bought a lot of them that way over the years.
 Another good one was Hazel Leap. I had a daughter of the original Miss Springfield sired by Hazel Leap that came from Lazy D. She was pretty good.
 Probably the 2 that made me the most money for the time was 2 Prime Time daughters. One was a daughter of Robin R180 and the other was a daughter of HS Scarlet O'Hare. The Robin dtr came from Merl Welch and the Scarlet came from Hoyt. Both were ones that Phil Hamilton bought. The Scarlet cow came from what Mike Dugdale called the thriller pen. He said if you wanted a "thrill" then try to get between her and her calf for the first 5 to 7 days. He was right. Flushed her one time to Irish Mist and got 2 daughters that were real good cows. Especially with them being full Irish. Bred one of these daughters to TPS Coronet Leader 21st and got a pretty good dtr. This was about 2006. Shawn Fisher in OH ended up with her.
 The Robin cow was a flushing machine. This was during the days when the everything was frozen as 3 step eggs. She never flushed less than 18 number 1 eggs. She would about break you, she produced so many.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: mark tenenbaum on April 30, 2019, 08:11:51 AM
Trying to figure out what to use Quane on O0
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: phillse on May 01, 2019, 11:02:12 AM
Did you find scotty throw consistent low birthweights?

I found scotty to consistently throw low birthweights or at least moderate birthweights with good calving ease.

I don't remember ever assisting  a scotty calf at birth or assistting a scotty daughter

In my opinion, he was a bull that should have seen more use
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Jacob B on May 01, 2019, 06:35:17 PM
“Thriller pen”. Made me giggle, definitely sounds like something mike dugdale would have said.   ;D;D
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: aj on May 02, 2019, 07:02:00 AM
I saw on facebook or some where..........that semen was available on a Muridale Rawhide that Warner's just bought?
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: mark tenenbaum on May 02, 2019, 08:48:20 AM
I havent seen many winners down here out of Canadian bulls O0
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: justintime on May 02, 2019, 09:16:11 AM
Duke of Dulbin's EPDs are unavailable on the ASA website.  I had heard his daughters weren't the best milkers.  Is that true?  How about birth EPD?  I see Fastrak is almost + 8 for BEPD.  I had a couple Duke calves years ago that were pretty good.  KaDel Urice sold a few bull calves at the Iowa Beef Expo many years ago that were real good.  I have full Irish semen in the tanks from Ultimate Type, Highler 202, Improver 3rd, High Octane, Leggs, Quane, Leader 18th, Leader 13th, Duke, Prime Time, Highler 204, and Guiness.  I haven't used any other than Leader 18th for many years, though I always liked the Irish calves I had.  Maybe the time is right to use them again?  I just loved the Leader 18th and Ultimate Type cows I had.

The Duke dtrs I had all milked good. Duke, Prime Time, Irish Mist and Improver were my favorites. I got along pretty good with UT on heifers. Highler 202 I liked when I saw him, but his progeny did the least for me. Hazel Leap was another one that I had a couple pretty good daughters of.


My experience with Duke of Dublin was that if he was bred to a good milking cow, he would sire a good milking daughter. If the cow he was bred to was moderate milking, he would sire a moderate milking daughter. I never thought of Duke as being a bull who would add milk to any of his offspring. That said, most Shorthprn females have " adequate" milk and there are often more that milk too much than there are that milk too little.

There has been some good bulls mentioned here that I have always thought should have been used more back in the day. Hazel Leap 2nd was a very very good bull, and his best known son Lazy D HL Quane was probably even a better breeding bull. I remember seeing Hazel Leap 2nd shortly after Dick Judy, from Beef Genetics Research Inc, Mankato, KS imported him in the same shipment that included Dividend, Improver, Leader 16th and many other bulls and females. I was impressed with Hazel Leap 2nd. Another bull that I really liked was Tourand Sir Ivor. Sir Ivor was sold to a commercial herd in Kansas a few months after arriving in the US, as the ASA did not allow any Irish cattle into the ASA herd book two years in a row and Dick Judy decided he better start selling some of these Irish cattle off to recoup some of his money invested. We happened to be at Dick Judy's the day after the ASA decided not to allow any Irish cattle into their herd book. He was so upset over this decision, that I think we could have bought any of the Irish cattle he imported that day. He even priced Dividend and Improver to us that day, and it was a high price but would have still been a very good investment.  We went over to see Tourant Sir Ivor in the commercial herd he was working in, and he was a real beef bull. He was probably one of the Irish bulls that slipped through the cracks and did not get used enough. I bought a son of Tourant Sir Ivor in Denver named Sandy Creek Ivor several years later. Ivor was a white bull and one of my biggest regrets is that I never collected semen from him. At the time, we also had Highfield Irish Mist, IDS Duke of Dublin, CCS Improver, and IDS Improver ( all full Irish), along with Ready Go, Waukaru Cinnabar, Four Point Major,  and Ellsway Columbus as our walking herd bulls. I had collected semen from most of these and I decided there was probably not enough interest in a white horned bull to collect him. I have regretted it ever since. Ivor produced some powerful offspring. After using him a few years, I sold him to Dale Wernicke in Illinois, and shortly after he got there, Dale found him dead in the pasture after he got rolled over in a hollow in the pasture and he bloated and died.
I have often wondered if there was much semen around from Lady D HL Quane. I am thinking he is a bull that should be introduced to a few cows again. I remember some awesome females sired by him. I saw Quane at Mcfarlands in South Dakota several times, and he was very impressive, as were many of his offspring
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: oakview on May 02, 2019, 10:13:48 AM
I went through the Lazy D pastures in I believe 1982 and had my choice of Ultimate Type or Quane.  I picked UT because of his absolutely flawless phenotype, he was sired by old Deerpark Leader, and his dam, Highfield Una 3rd, was one great cow.  There was a reason Richard named him what he did.  Quane was not quite as smooth through his shoulder and front end, but his dam was an even greater cow.  I think I remember her being champion cow in Ireland.  I saw Highler 202 and Hazel Leap 2nd, probably on that trip, and I thought Highler was a better bull.  I used Quane a little bit and had some very good calves.  I always wanted to have some Quane calves out of UT daughters.  Maybe if I get at it.....
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Medium Rare on May 02, 2019, 12:22:33 PM
I'd sure like to see a picture of Hazel Leap 2nd if anyone has one. Is there a story behind why his semen straws are labeled like they are?


Pic of an Ultimate Type daughter...

Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Doc on May 02, 2019, 05:41:44 PM
Here's a pic of the Leader 21st cow out of a full Irish, Irish Mist cow,
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: mark tenenbaum on May 02, 2019, 08:32:24 PM
Super Pretty-needs a shot of clubby or fullblood maine JMO-Doc Son on here has some super good FULLBLOODS-I like cunia or 4S Impact Shaker on one like her  - neither of them could be considered course made or high gutted-and Leader the 18Th was a skinny looking bull but was magic when mixed with the right main or clubby way more so than the Rodeo Trump merry go round O0
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Duncraggan on May 08, 2019, 01:07:27 PM
What about shadybrook scotty? Was he considered an all red?
We used him fairly heavily and to good effect! That white flank was quite hereditary!
Can't recall a red calf, they all seemed to have white on them. Google 'Duncraggan Tarantino', a bull we bred, used, and collected for further use.
If I remember correctly he was a finalist in the region for 'Champion of the World' a few years ago!
Did you find scotty throw consistent low birthweights?
Averaged 38kg (84lbs), high 46kg (101lbs) and low 30kg (66lbs). No assists.
Title: Re: A pretty much all red Shorthorn bull that sired class winners
Post by: Duncraggan on May 08, 2019, 01:34:28 PM
Duke of Dulbin's EPDs are unavailable on the ASA website.  I had heard his daughters weren't the best milkers.  Is that true?  How about birth EPD?  I see Fastrak is almost + 8 for BEPD.  I had a couple Duke calves years ago that were pretty good.  KaDel Urice sold a few bull calves at the Iowa Beef Expo many years ago that were real good.  I have full Irish semen in the tanks from Ultimate Type, Highler 202, Improver 3rd, High Octane, Leggs, Quane, Leader 18th, Leader 13th, Duke, Prime Time, Highler 204, and Guiness.  I haven't used any other than Leader 18th for many years, though I always liked the Irish calves I had.  Maybe the time is right to use them again?  I just loved the Leader 18th and Ultimate Type cows I had.

The Duke dtrs I had all milked good. Duke, Prime Time, Irish Mist and Improver were my favorites. I got along pretty good with UT on heifers. Highler 202 I liked when I saw him, but his progeny did the least for me. Hazel Leap was another one that I had a couple pretty good daughters of.


My experience with Duke of Dublin was that if he was bred to a good milking cow, he would sire a good milking daughter. If the cow he was bred to was moderate milking, he would sire a moderate milking daughter. I never thought of Duke as being a bull who would add milk to any of his offspring. That said, most Shorthprn females have " adequate" milk and there are often more that milk too much than there are that milk too little.

There has been some good bulls mentioned here that I have always thought should have been used more back in the day. Hazel Leap 2nd was a very very good bull, and his best known son Lazy D HL Quane was probably even a better breeding bull. I remember seeing Hazel Leap 2nd shortly after Dick Judy, from Beef Genetics Research Inc, Mankato, KS imported him in the same shipment that included Dividend, Improver, Leader 16th and many other bulls and females. I was impressed with Hazel Leap 2nd. Another bull that I really liked was Tourand Sir Ivor. Sir Ivor was sold to a commercial herd in Kansas a few months after arriving in the US, as the ASA did not allow any Irish cattle into the ASA herd book two years in a row and Dick Judy decided he better start selling some of these Irish cattle off to recoup some of his money invested. We happened to be at Dick Judy's the day after the ASA decided not to allow any Irish cattle into their herd book. He was so upset over this decision, that I think we could have bought any of the Irish cattle he imported that day. He even priced Dividend and Improver to us that day, and it was a high price but would have still been a very good investment.  We went over to see Tourant Sir Ivor in the commercial herd he was working in, and he was a real beef bull. He was probably one of the Irish bulls that slipped through the cracks and did not get used enough. I bought a son of Tourant Sir Ivor in Denver named Sandy Creek Ivor several years later. Ivor was a white bull and one of my biggest regrets is that I never collected semen from him. At the time, we also had Highfield Irish Mist, IDS Duke of Dublin, CCS Improver, and IDS Improver ( all full Irish), along with Ready Go, Waukaru Cinnabar, Four Point Major,  and Ellsway Columbus as our walking herd bulls. I had collected semen from most of these and I decided there was probably not enough interest in a white horned bull to collect him. I have regretted it ever since. Ivor produced some powerful offspring. After using him a few years, I sold him to Dale Wernicke in Illinois, and shortly after he got there, Dale found him dead in the pasture after he got rolled over in a hollow in the pasture and he bloated and died.
I have often wondered if there was much semen around from Lady D HL Quane. I am thinking he is a bull that should be introduced to a few cows again. I remember some awesome females sired by him. I saw Quane at Mcfarlands in South Dakota several times, and he was very impressive, as were many of his offspring
On Monday I will be inseminating three head to a full Irish Tournant Sir James ET son imported about ten years ago. Had a great hindquarter! Still have 63 doses in the tank and want to see what he does. First batch of calves back then were mediocre and we were wanting maximum growth so they went to the feedlot. All bull calves too!