AI Problem

Ok...I've got a PB charolais cow that I am trying to get bred.  I've had her AIed 3 times over the past 5months.  Long story "shorter" she had a HARD pull in August (150lb Monopoly heifer calf).  She did get a little tear on her vulva...but nothing bad.  When time came to rebreed her, the vet put in CIDRs for and breed them for me.  She missed...as did the others I took in her group.  Well then I tried again 2 months later.  Again, she missed.  After that time I had the vet check her out....to see what the heck the deal is.  Cyst? Twisted uterus?  Anything?....he said nothing was wrong-all fell good and normal.  So we try a third time.....and lone and behold-today is day 21 and she's bellowing and riding another cow.  What's your thoughts?  I am tossing up 2 things here....either there is something my vet has missed or he's lost his AI touch.  Also, he missed 2 other head the 1st and 2nd times.  Got a close eye on them to see if they come into heat in the next day or so. 

false heat is an option, as unlikely as it is. Happened to me twice in two years on two different cows.

Even tough she had some disticia issues, I would be more inclined to simply think this is more of a timing issue than anything.

I see this happening more and more all the time -- IE -- those of you who may not be able to breed your own cows take them some place to get synced(I still feel that is more wrong than right most of the time) and then -- after all the stuff they do to them, they simply FAIL to be there when they need to be there for the cow. Tick-Tick-Tick -- the clock says it's time to go home -- so ooooooppps -- better go breed that darn cow , oh well -- she is still riding, but it's been 6 hours -- she'll be fine?????????????  WRONG

Most of you folks on here would be absolutely amazed at my schedule when we are busy with donors or for that matter - my own cows. If you are worried about the clock, then don't be in the breeding business. Most of the folks that offer A-I as an add on service will not be able to commit to the cows -- thus syncronizing and more drugs to MAKE then comply. I don't make them do anything, they tell me what to do -- and it works REALLY well.

Give the cow more time -- make sure she is well past any activity before you go and breed her -- and use good semen with good techniques and I would doubt you will see very many - if any -- problems from there on. For giggles, ask the vet service WHEN she came in heat and when he BRED her -- you might be very surprised!

Terry

PS -- keep trying, it;s worth the extra effort even though it does get frustrating some times!

I would bet timing is more of a problem than anything,  try2 breedings 10/12 hrs apart,  if heats are on, time a Cysterlinn  might be in order, and at time of breeding also,

Like Terry said--  good quality semen-  Have you had it checked?  Are all these cows being AI"d with the same semen?

Don't forget that there is alot of really poor semen out there.  I got some once that could only get about 10% conception with it and had it checked and it was 70% abnormal cells.  Talked to the stud that collected it and they said that I should get some calves with it. 

Sad -- but frozen bull semen is buyer beware

Have a good one

I don't know all of the particulars, but agree with Cowboy 100%. I think though that I would be doing one of 2 things or a combination of both. Get a new AI tech. or a good bull, or both. Feed is too high to have cows not pregnant IMO.

Every once in a while, we get cattle that just won't settle to a.i.  When these same "hard breeders" are kicked out with a bull, they breed right away. Once you get another calf out of them, many times they are good to try a.i.'ing again the next year.

Timing is definately an issue with cattle...while I am not against timed AI like some people are, there are many situations which get tricky.  Those times that different protocals list as when you should breed are just averages.  Even when using drugs and synching to try at make the cows come in, all we are doing really is telling them to start a new cycle, and unfortunately all cattle dont cycle the same.  So even if your vet is time AIing and is spot on with his protocal times, its still possible to not hit that cow at exactly the right time.  I agree that I would prefer to just watch for a natural heat and breed on that.  But again timing is an issue, you still have to have semen in them at the proper time, and sometimes its not possible to get to them at the right time.  Thus the advantage of synching and timed AIing, I have had very good success with it and it actually allows me to create a schedule of when I am going to breed.  If I bred every body I breed for cattle on natural heats there is no way I would be able to work out a schedule and get to them all at the right time.
Semen quality is always a culprit to consider, and as Zane said, I have had several in the past that just never would settle AI no matter how picture perfect the technique was.  Yet they settled the first heat when out with a bull, everytime.  I tend to think these are the same cows that maybe have weird cycles, the bull is more likely to cover them several times and get it done at the ideal time.
Keep trying, if you are doubting your technichian then try someone else.  If she still doesnt get bred have some semen tested, and try a bull.  If the bull continually doesnt get it done then its more likely a problem with the cow.  Remember everything could "feel" great inside her and she still have something going on with her that is keeping her from sticking.  For instance, if she is havin a hormone issue and not producing progesterone right, then your CL may be regressing and the pregnancy just isnt sticking.  For things like that you cant necessarily feel the problem.

Don't know what semen your using but have had trouble some Charolais semen in the past when ALTA was selling semen,companys around now do a excellent job I think ....

Lot of talk about proper timing, I think most would agree 12 hr after standing heat, I would like to ask some of you this. You  see your cow start standing at 1pm do you breed early next am (like 5 or 6) or do you breed 1am?

mrhutch2u said:

Lot of talk about proper timing, I think most would agree 12 hr after standing heat, I would like to ask some of you this. You  see your cow start standing at 1pm do you breed early next am (like 5 or 6) or do you breed 1am?

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I'd breed the next morning. Standing heat ranges from 12-24 hrs. And ovulation takes place approximately 10 hrs after they stop standing.

You sateted the rule of thumb 12 hours after standing heat and that is just exactly what it is. It's a starting point, a guide to beginning AIers if you will. The great breeders take this guide and go on to perfect their own expertise to maximize conception. Breeding every cow 12 hours after standing heat would conpare somewhat to saying that every cow is on a 21 day estrous cycle and we all would agree that 21 days is an average arrived @ by taking the averages of the 17 to 23 day cycles. Use the 12 hour rule and then go on to watching your cows closer. Watch for the period of time that the cow heifer goes into that calm, I'm through with this bulling state, and breed her then. Familiarize yourself with the different stages of a cow/heifer coming into heat, standing heat , and then going out of standing heat. ZNT has a very good example of these stages on a video @ his web-site/blog. If you take the time to do these things, you will reap the rewards. Good Luck breeding to everyone this season.