ATTN: Shorthorn Breeders

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Davis Shorthorns

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Carm said:
Thanks to all who responded.  Especially the suggestions in the earlier replies.  I have gotten some good ideas and suggestions and a few helpful personal messages. 

I don't want to sound like a sell out, but would it work to just use another breed once on some cows.  Like  Copyright or something that would make a big first step and then breed up from there with Shorthorns.  I have the patience. 

Right now I have a Durham red heifer that after her first calf will be breed up.  I think that shorthorns have a lot to offer the commercial guy, but right now for me it doesn't hurt to have a shot of something else to help along the process. 
 

GONEWEST

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I'm not sure, but I THINK, much like DL said,  if I wanted some cattle like Ohlde's, why the first place I'd check into would be............Tim Ohlde.  ???
 

r.n.reed

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I agree with Gonewest.Rather than trying to blend diverse bloodlines to reach your breeding goals start with the closest thing you can find to that type that is reliably bred to be that way and save your self a lot of time and maybe some money too.
 

justintime

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I agree with many of the thoughts expressed here regarding breeding up to a desired goal. Some of the best cattle in many breeds have been arrived at through the grading up process. Take a look at the Charolais , Simmental, Maine, Limousin, and many others to see how this has taken place. Virtually all the Charolais breed consists of cattle that were bred up to purebred status from some other breed. There are a few herds that are maintaining the Full French bloodlines, and this is a good thing, as it provides genetics that breeders can go back to, to infuse back into their breeding programs from time to time.The same can be said for many other breeds.

I am a big believer in grading up programs, as they provide a method of documentation for breeders. I know there are some people who think so called " purebred" ( or in the Shorthorn breed... non asterisk) cattle are superior, but I do not agree with this premise. I know enough about several bloodlines to know that there are many cattle in closed herd books that are much less purebred than  many cattle in the appendix programs.

One of the best lines of cattle I ever produced started from my white Shorthorn herd bull breeding a  black half blood Simmental female back in the 1970s. We tried to abort the calf but this Simmental cow really must have wanted this calf as we retained the pregnancy after three shots of Estumate. She had a red roan heifer calf that was simply amazing. We were very fortunate as we were able to breed her up to purebred level very quickly as the first calf born in each succeeding generation was a heifer calf.  Many of this line were our best show cattle and also our best sale cattle. I smile often when I see this bloodline in some of today's non apprendix " purebred" pedigrees. This has occurred because for a period of time in the early 90s, our breed association allowed graded up cattle that had achieved purebred status to move back into the closed herd book. It is funny how things go around, because they are now doing the same thing again.

I have attached a picture of a little project I have right now. This is a rather poor picture of this heifer, but it is the only one I presently have ( and I am too busy today to go out and snap a better one!)  This heifer is now a yearling heifer, and she is two generations from a purebred Angus cow. Her mother is a solid black half blood cow. We kept her to be a recip but she is a very good cow on her own right. She did not retain the embryo and was bred to a white Shorthorn herd sire. I have had many visitors ask me to price her, but I have told them she is only a 3/4 blood heifer. She has continued to develop very well and is an extremely thick heifer with tremendous capacity. I am keeping her and going to try to develop a new line of Shorthorns.

Carm, if you decide you want to go this way, there are several things to keep in mind. Firstly, have a definite goal in mind. Secondly, I would suggest you consider the time it will take and think about the fact that a grading up program may limit the income produced from your herd for a period of time. The good thing is you can select a few good females to go this route with and continue to keep the rest of your herd purebred. 
 

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shortyjock89

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Hey JIT, you must have been reading my mind! To be honest, I don't have any asterisk free cattle, and my best calves this year and last year are my Appendix Shorthorn calves.  We have three this year that I think are outstanding, and they look just like Purebreds, but they're 3/4-7/8.  I'll be getting pics of them soon I hope. 
 

justintime

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trevorgreycattleco said:
Found this old thread, found it interesting. JIT how is that heifer doing you were breeding up from a angus?


You had to bring this heifer up!!!  No she turned out to be a great heifer.... until she died!  The heifer I pictured in this thread, continued to develop through the winter, and she was one of the best yearling heifers on the farm. Actually she was one of the best heifers I had raised in many years. One morning in early June I went out to do a heat check as I was AI breeding some of the heifers. As I approached the heifers, I saw this heifer and saw she was " very full". When I got to her, I saw she was bloated and in some distress. I tried to walk her up to the feedlot, but I could see she was getting bigger and harder.I tried to push on her side to get some of the gas released by her belching. She did belch a couple times, and released some gas but soon she was getting so hard she was as tight as a drum. I did not even have my jack knife that morning so I could drive it into her and let some gas out. I knew I was in trouble when she started to lie down and I decided my only chance was to try to get to the feedlot and get a trocar and get some of this pressure off. I jumped into the truck and drove like an idiot to the feedlot, which was not very far away, maybe 500-600 yards. I grabbed the trocar and headed back only to find a dead heifer when I got there. I doubt if it was 3 minutes since I left her.
I was planning to show her in the Shorthorn plus show at Agribition and she would have been very competitive. Instead, she got buried.
 

Okotoks

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justintime said:
trevorgreycattleco said:
Found this old thread, found it interesting. JIT how is that heifer doing you were breeding up from a angus?


You had to bring this heifer up!!!   No she turned out to be a great heifer.... until she died! ........ I knew I was in trouble when she started to lie down and I decided my only chance was to try to get to the feedlot and get a trocar and get some of this pressure off. I jumped into the truck and drove like an idiot to the feedlot, which was not very far away, maybe 500-600 yards. I grabbed the trocar and headed back only to find a dead heifer when I got there. I doubt if it was 3 minutes since I left her.
I was planning to show her in the Shorthorn plus show at Agribition and she would have been very competitive. Instead, she got buried.
If only every breeding program could save those great ones. I know my brother in law Gary Carter's best full Australian heifer,Newbiggon Super Sandy, from his imported cow Mandalong Roany 55 died as a yearling and I can remember her clearly over 30 years later.
Thus two common sayings around our place "where there's livestock there's dead stock" and "as long as it doesn't get any closer to the house".
 

trevorgreycattleco

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Sorry to bring this up. I just thought the thread was a good one and you had some cross breeding going on was nice. We had a awesome durham red heifer sired by JSF Real World we bought from out west. One night she is eating and doing fine, the next morning she was deader than a doornail. Animals die, that is the crap part of our business.

JIT, I see your and aj go back with your banter. A couple seasoned ol veterans. Good stuff <beer>
 

aj

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In response to roadwarriors post on the preceding page. Most producers will not accept a 20% open ratio. However if you are truly testing for superior cattle you need to put pressure on them. Pressure to perform. Not breeding back is a economical trait. Since he is a seedstock producer he is putting pressure on genetics to select the ones that can rebreed under limited resources. He kicks out the ones that don't make it. He is making progress there. Most seedstock producers just change the enviroment in order to keep the genetics. Supplements or whatever. Then they start feeding grain. Then they creep feed than they start keeping back opens. And before you know it we are propagating cattle that won't even work in the real world. Kit uses brutal selection pressure. Alot of show cattle wouldn't hold up under this pressure. They have been babied for generations. All in the name of hitting the 1300 pound yearling or whatever performance is considered. Heres a thought. Maybe instead of creating artifical enviroments for little suzies heifer to survive maybe we start changing the type of cattle we select. And I don't mean holding our mouth differently and using the same genetics...I mean use difeerent genetics. But oh no we cant do that cause we paid 5,000$ for little suzies heifer. So she stays in the herd and keeps propagating offspring under a babied enviroment and the vicious circle continues. That is why I get sick when people brag about their cattles "PERFORMANCE". Cause they start with a premise that is false to start with. jmo
 
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