I don't think Data Bank would be any more or less of an outcross to my cows than Dollar II. I would think the true effect of hybrid vigor would be the same. I would expect the extra kick to come from the genetic heritage of the bull in question as opposed to simply the effect of crossing two totally unrelated lines.
Full Blood Maine Weekly Update
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RyanChandler
Well-known member
oakview said:
I thought you were simply comparing old vs new. I feel many of the newer lines (of any breed really) are diluted.
I too think that there has been a lot of performance bred out of some cattle. By the way, if you bought that HC bull that's pictured, he's pretty good. I liked him about as well as any in the sale. The only thing I didn't like about him was that he maybe appeared a little more "spirited" in his video. Hardly a real criticism. If I would have had more heifers to breed, I would have made a real effort to bring lot 20 to my place. Best of luck with that bull.
FB-Maines94
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I noticed that some of the lots are gone now. Anyone know why were they cut? Lot 21 was probably the best of the bunch.
RyanChandler
Well-known member
oakview said:
Yes, vanguard will be headed to Texas. I partnered on the bull with PRC on here. He appears a bit high headed to me to but I'd like to associate that with vigor. I can't imagine the alpha male being a pushover
. Lot 20 looked like a solid little bull for sure. I already use a Bonanza son as my heifer bull so I tried to step up the performance with Vanguard. I think he'll do the trick.
Telos
Well-known member
I think General Jackson's pedigree is super good and has tremendous value. Some of the older breeders really talked this bull up, but he came at a time when Black Maines and Shorthorn x Maines were the name of the game. Once Black or Shorthorn colored genetics were established and had a foundation to work from then most Fullbloods were ignored. Not many people are willing to invest the time or money for more sampling or experimenting.
I really like the looks of Kuda. does not have the typical body as most Novino lines but perhaps have some really deep made genes within his pedigree. Power Plant is typical of your linebred Novino's. They can get really flat and shallow especially when used on more Maine genetics that also go back to Novino. They are just too hard doing if there's too much of that line within a pedigree for my taste.
I really like the looks of Kuda. does not have the typical body as most Novino lines but perhaps have some really deep made genes within his pedigree. Power Plant is typical of your linebred Novino's. They can get really flat and shallow especially when used on more Maine genetics that also go back to Novino. They are just too hard doing if there's too much of that line within a pedigree for my taste.
The lots that were cut were due to scrotal size when we got them semen tested the other day. The vet didn't feel we could guarantee them. We will be keeping lot 21 around as a 2 year old to see if he matures and grows a pair. Not sure if it has something to do with being a twin to a heifer??FB-Maines94 said:
I sometimes question the idea that smaller cattle=more efficient. We are always looking to put the most pounds on an animal for the least amount of feed and Maine crosses seem to do that regardless of size. This is particularly important since we feed out our own animals for meat. Not sure about Knabes questions of improved vigour in Canada but that would be something to look into.FB-Maines94 said:
RyanChandler
Well-known member
Cost of gain is all you need to be concerned with in terms of efficiency. Then again, turnover ratios are important too.
knabe
Well-known member
CWCCattle said:
thank goodness on lot 21 cwc. scrotal is not a perfect measurement as some breeds are smaller than others, ie chi and maine's.
chi's are known for a higher count. not sure on maine's.
Telos: did you ever see general jackson or raise or see any calves by him? did you ever see 81e? john schuessler told me he was a great bull, but i only saw epic and sundowner epinal which were good bulls and full sibs from the same flush.Telos said:
Telos
Well-known member
doc-sun said:
I have seen several out of fullblood cows. They were larger framed but had plenty internal dimension. What I remember the most is that they were athletic and traveled well. General Jackson and his pedigree should cross especially well with modern day Maines' and IMO really work on all these linebred Blacks' that are loaded down with Cunia genetics. He will add the frame though, and I think should be used on smaller cows for maximum results..
Never saw 81E or the full sibs, ( Plenty of offspring) but strongly feel the Cette-La cow was more of the contributing factor in their success because she was just a massive cow. Epinal was possibly the prefect bull for that mating because I think he is one of the most fault free Maines' that was imported. Epinal always seemed to work best on thicker made genetics IMO. He could put a nice clean look in his calves and was one of my favorites on those harder calving genetics.
Telos
Well-known member
I said I liked lot 10 in the Foundation Maine sale but after looking through the videos lot 1 is probably my first choice with Lot 10 coming in at a close 2nd. Both bulls carry a little heavy birth weight but you have to remember they're fullbloods. I think they are still reasonable weights.
Telos
Well-known member
Congratulations with what looks to be a successful sale. CWC - Although lot 1 looks great, I also think lot 10 is going to do alot of good in adding al lot of look and performance to those longer, harder doing cows. I especially like 10's pedigree.
Thank you. I Agree, lot 10 is much easier fleshing and he had really good growth as shown by his ADG on test. Would like to maybe cross the lot 1 and lot 10 lines to get a muscled, easy fleshing calf. That lot 10 bull sold to a neighbor of mine who is a commercial breeder but I had a condition that I could draw semen for myself. So you may see some sons and daughters coming in the next calf crop. There are also half brothers and sisters in my current calf crop.Telos said:
craig: congrats on your sale. i commend you on your effort and hope you can keep your breeders together for future sucesses. you had a good start and will progress next year if everyone will learn and work toward the 2014 sale.CWCCattle said:
Does anyone have any information on Franco? I got some semen on him and was told that he produces good heifer bulls but then I talked to another guy that said he doesn't. Also what type of cow would he mate well with? I only have two straws so I am thinking of putting them in a flush.
Telos
Well-known member
CWCCattle said:
When looking through pedigrees of interesting/high profiling progeny, you will find him in bulls like JDS Stout and think he played a significant role. I have never seen any direct progeny, but would consider him one of the bigger, power bulls that came in later. He may have been a hard calving guy and was not used very much after his first calf crop. You will find him in some black cows pedigrees if you go several generations back. I'll try to find some for you.
With that said I would not hesitate using him in conjunction with easy calving genetics. It might be interesting using him in an F1 scenario and parring him with easy calving Angus or Shorthorn through embryo transplant (He did not seem to have ever been used in an F1 situation). You could also consider Ali or other calving ease animals within the Maine breed. He is related to the great Horton Helena cow ( you will find her in Daft Pick) on the paternal side. Should have good outcross potential to everything now available.
Knowing you are a fullblood breeder he is an interesting choice, IMO. He is one of those bulls that appears to play with those pedigrees that have a higher concentration of Novino genetics. Does anyone have a photo?
http://www.maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=345646
