Baffled!!!!?????

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RyanChandler

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I like her front end,, the real issue is her rear leg set. 

Most of the cattle you're talking about have very little intrinsic value anyways so to focus on the 'advertised' sale price just doesn't seem very productive.  It's illogical to try and analyze the price of something that can't be substantiated past the point of 'there were two guys there bidding against each other who had some running money to spend.' 

"Ceo Joe, not knowing Hereford from Holstein, called around looking for his daughter a show calf.  He asked Broker Bill what it's going to cost him to entertain his daughter till the end of the school year.  Broker Bill tells him 10 grand oughta do it. Ceo Joe mails the check, Broker Bill ships the calf.  Ignorance is bliss and the industry moves on. "
 

DSC

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That heifer did not sell for $10,000. The lot 1 steer brought $10,000 and she was lot two and brought I believe $6500. Another question would be why you would post a picture of someones else's calf and ask why it would bring so much?? If I was the seller or buyer of this calf I would be furious. I happen to know the seller in this situation. Just think would you like it if someone posted a picture of something you raised and started bashing it? Think about it........
 

iowabeef

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DSC said:
That heifer did not sell for $10,000. The lot 1 steer brought $10,000 and she was lot two and brought I believe $6500. Another question would be why you would post a picture of someones else's calf and ask why it would bring so much?? If I was the seller or buyer of this calf I would be furious. I happen to know the seller in this situation. Just think would you like it if someone posted a picture of something you raised and started bashing it? Think about it........
I agree completely. A thread like this does not do our industry any service.  Maybe the originator of this thread would not spend money on that calf, however, I find it childish and petty to post like that.  More power to anyone who finds a buyer for any calf. 
 

RyanChandler

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He could have been a bit more tactful but I think discussing calf prices in relation to what you get is a good thing.  A blue book of sorts would do this industry a world of good.  What does a 5k heifer look like.  what about a 10k.  How about a 15k.  To legitimize these numbers, accurate descriptors need to be used to help even a novice distinguish between the merit of the animals.  Id just like to see folks be able to quantify the characteristics that make, for example, calf 'A' worth 5k more than calf 'B'--  Where could a novice find these answers?  It's almost like the industry is dependent on information asymmetry for its survival. 
 

ctroidl

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I deeply apologize for the connotation of this post, i did not mean to direct this towards any individual buyer or seller.
I was simply trying to justify as to why but that is no excuse for what I stated.
sorry for my narrow mindedness.





Tucker Troidl
 

vc

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X-bar, best way is to walk through the pens with a price sheet and look at the calves, it does not take long to figure out how the $5000 calves differs from the $1500 calves. The actual price is based off what a typical customer will pay for each type of calf. Some are over priced some are under priced but usually they are priced by type: county fair, state fair, Majors, and then the top end, middle or lower end of that type.
just like the range of calf types, you get the same range in buyers, cheap county fair calf, competitive county fair calf, a calf that will compete at state fair or a calf that might have a shot at winning it class. Then the name game comes into play: the bull, cow, and/or seller name, can drive the price up or down.
 

justintime

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so just what is any animal worth now?  Quality has always demanded a premium and quality is also in the eye of the beholder. With present sale barn prices, what should we expect for our better end cattle? I just picked up my cheque from a few head sold on Monday. This was a definite cut off the bottom of my calf crop and well as 3 yearling heifers that were open or bred very late in the season. Two May born bull calves averaged 515 lbs and sold for $3.33/ lb or $1715.00 each. A fall born bull (who was not good enough in my opinion to be sold as a bull) weighed 974 lbs and brought $2.01/lb or $1957.00. Three yearling heifer averaged 1060 lbs right off of pasture and sold for $1.9875 or $2107.00 each.  I also sorted off three heifer calves , all May born that were out of recips that did not get an embryo last year. The top price from these 3 head was a 455 lb heifer which sold for 3.22/ lb and brought $1465.00. After looking at these types of prices, $5000- $10,000 for a good show prospect doesn't sound too bad.
I saw a set of bred cows for sale on a internet page last night and they had them priced at $1850. I am thinking they haven't checked out the markets much and if they weren't 700 miles from here, I would be tempted to buy them and resell them again.
 

Tallcool1

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The problem is that SO many of these prices aren't real. 

I understand that you wish you had thrown this out there in a different way.  That is all fine, and I believe you didn't have any bad intentions.

To answer your question, it is impossible to do any type of comparison or deductive reasoning.  The money isn't real.
 

hntwhitetail

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How is the money not real?  Doesn't a check have to be sent to the auction company then dispensed??
 

justintime

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I hear so many people say that many of the high selling animals are fake prices. I will agree that some aren't, but I truly think that many are real. I had occasion to talk with a man who purchased a heifer calf for $120,000 a few years ago. He told me his logic and to me, it made sense. He said that he had just completed two major road contracts for his state, and had just received payment of over $2 Million. He said this was going to create some major tax implications for his company and he just decided that rather than just pay all the tax and let the government decide where it should be spent, that his daughter was going to have some fun showing a good heifer. To him, the price did not matter. I think the point is that we do not know everyone's situation, and oftentimes, just because we would not pay that much for an animal, doesn't mean that no one else would. Personally, I don't think most cattle prices have kept up with other things we have to buy. I am often amused when I go to a sale and see a long line up of fancy trucks and trailers which combined would probably cost in excess of $75,000, yet most of these same people would struggle to buy an animal for more than $5000. I know which purchase is going to make you the most return! 
 

Tallcool1

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hntwhitetail said:
How is the money not real?  Doesn't a check have to be sent to the auction company then dispensed??

No, a check does not have to be sent to the auction company. 
 

aj

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I liked x bars broker bill example. The beauty of capitalism......is that the free market determines the price of an animal. It is the price of that animal on that day. A week later that calf may be half price in the market. No communist central planning committee sets a value on the calf. The FREE MARKET determines value of a product in a way that takes years and many economists ten years to analyze WHY?
 

RyanChandler

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aj said:
I liked x bars broker bill example. The beauty of capitalism......is that the free market determines the price of an animal. It is the price of that animal on that day. A week later that calf may be half price in the market. No communist central planning committee sets a value on the calf. The FREE MARKET determines value of a product in a way that takes years and many economists ten years to analyze WHY?

More like one of the perils of capitalism and the need for regulatory market intervention.  The very foundation of Free Market capitalism is grounded by the assumptions of 'perfect information,' and 'perfect competition.' These assumption couldn't get any farther from the truth! When one of the parties (buyer or seller) has more or better information than the other, this 'information monopoly' creates an imbalance of power which results in 'market failure.'  This failure leads to imperfect competition and ultimately various agents (breeders) collude to form an oligopoly (syndicates).  These cartels/breeders use their power to restrict output (of semen) below the quantity the market demands (again, by only offering syndicate shares) as to keep profit and prices high.  Call it what you want, but be assured, this market doesn't reflect any of the structural elements of a free market economy.



 

GoWyo

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The seller usually has better information.  Buyer has to exercise due diligence to find out the information.  Sellers can be sued for negligent or intentional misrepresentation.  Steer Planet is one good way of getting information.  Are you proposing setting up a government agency to make sure everyone has perfect information for each and every transaction?  Maybe a truth commission for syndicated livestock?
 

librarian

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I'm no economist, but it seems like the value of money is relative to how much a person has. If you expect to sell at $10000, then buying at $10000 is just where you are at. And if the emperors are buying and selling to each other at imaginary prices, it's really no different than us commoners swapping heifers to each other at $2500. If I had 10000, I'd buy the best 4 animals I could but then I'd have 4 to feed for the same return. Probably why the rich get richer and the rest of us just get more cows.
 

aj

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Perhaps we need a zar for Cub calf fairness in pricing issues. Or may the government should be the only enities allowed to deal in club calves.No private citizens would be allowed to own club calves......the government would be more efficient in raising club calves anyway. Or maybe onlt the government would allowed to raise club calves and then fair auctions could be held for private citizen buyers to purchase calves.
 

aj

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On the Shorthorn side........we could have a fairness committee for Shorthorns.......Cagwin, Ageter, and JIT would be on it. A value for each individual would be determined.....and then numbers drawed out of a hat to determine the new owner. This would put everybody on a Obama......level playing field......fairness for all senario. All bidders would be charged 3% by the government for the right to participate.
 
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