Belt Buckle Cattle

I have been methodically studying the 1920's Shorthorn World and aj is right about the cattle being pretty large back then.
http://books.google.com/books?id=cR45AQAAMAAJ&dq=dual%20purpose%20Shorthorn&pg=RA3-PA18#v=onepage&q=dual%20purpose%20Shorthorn&f=false  another
And another "true dual purpose type"
http://books.google.com/books?id=cR45AQAAMAAJ&dq=dual%20purpose%20Shorthorn&pg=RA5-PA22#v=onepage&q=dual%20purpose%20Shorthorn&f=false
The rationale for this type of cow seems to be that the movement to build farms in the West requires a weekly cream check to get the producer through the year until the beef calves can be sold. I can see how there would be a reason to adjust the weight of these cows downward, but....
How and When did the dwarfing of beef breeds really get started?
And, most of all, Why?

It has been my experience that most type changes in all species are started in the show ring.  Somebody, usually a person with more letters behind their last name than in it, decides that we need something different.  There may often be a thesis behind their reasoning, so it has to be true.  After a few shows, it becomes a movement.  The Scotch type Shorthorn cattle became popular at shows and the demand spread.  In the Shorthorn World's of the 50's and 60's, most of the "noted" breeders in the US featured their imported bull.  Calrossie, Bapton, Saltoun, Glastulloch, Denend, Lawton, and Kinnellar are some of the herds I remember that sent a lot of cattle to the States.

Sometimes there is a need behind a specific type of animal.  For example, if you look at the hog type of maybe 70 or 80 years ago, you will find a desire for "lard" type hogs.  At that time, it is my understanding lard was in demand, so people selected for hogs that had extra bacfat.  That demand declined over time, so hogs changed. 

As far as the desire for belt buckle cattle, I don't have a "need" answer for you.  In my opinion, someone decided they were what they wanted and many followed.  As is usually the case, many commercial producers and a handful of purebred breeders stayed in the middle of the road and were prepared when the pendulum swung back the other way.

Nice cow-


It's unfortunate what the scotch infusion did to the overall quality of these types. 

If those were 1600 lb cows with that much milk, think what the weaning weights must have been. But what were they feeding them? Could you sell enough cream and butter to feed them? Were they that high in butterfat? Did they have that A2 milk? Things to wonder about.
How could commercial producers be convinced to trade animals with this kind of cow power for midgets? Real Scotch Shorthorns from the herds of
Duthie and Cruickshank were not midgets in their day.
This story just goes not make sense in economical terms.

I always thought, and was told that Belt Buckle Cattle were a result of quality grades being implemented in 1928.  When quality grades came into effect breeders moderated cattle to fatten faster/easier. I guess they thought more white then red ment more marbling and consequently higher, more favorable quality grades.  When Yield grades came into play in the late 60's the trend started to go big again in the 70's and 80's. Please correct me if this is wrong.

One of the oldest living cattle breeders in the US in the early 90s was Harry Mccan-Winchester Va who also was a Shorthorn breeder-as was his father before him-So the cattle went back to the late 1800s and he would have been close to his mid twenties when these magazines came out. At that time he went to Chicago to see the International Ohio and traveled long distances by train *later) to see people like Albert Hultine,Sniabar Farms etc..He told me that the cattle were real big but short legged-and the beginings of the poney cattle came about in a trend towards early maturity. O0

I think........the belt buckle cattle have one thing to offer genetically. FLESHING ability. AND if fleshing ability is tied to marbling somehow.........It would make sense to revisit this gene pool. Question of the day.......do the jpj cattle have a marbling gene to them?

I have a Capiche blue roan commercial first calf heifer that has more condition on her than any of my cows, including the Galloways. And I only started feeding hay last week, so they were scrounging around until then and the calf, which has to be about 650 lbs, is still on her. She weighs 1200 at most.
So, to me, that spells early maturity and propensity for marbling.
I always thought the Jake cattle were really bred to be a Shorthorn cross match for the Ohlde Angus cows. Why would all the Ohlde breeding philosophy and selection strategy not apply to their Shorthorn breeding. I bet JPJ is, at least, heterozygous for that obesity gene.

Thank you,ut showgirl, for making that connection.
It reminded me of a little book put out by Armour in 1920, to educate producers how to raise what Armour wanted to process. The industry was changing, farming was changing, and American consumers were changing.
They address the need for earlier maturing cattle, the aptitude for Angus to succeed in the feedlot and the suitability of dual purpose cattle to vanishing diversified farming.
It's really an interesting book, and still relevant.
https://archive.org/stream/progressivebeefc00went#page/n3/mode/2up

And a little more on breeds and breed distribution. Interesting how many purebred Shorthorn bulls were in use. The Shorthorn herd photo was the frontispiece of the book, causing me to believe such a herd was their target starting point.

Could the ds condition be tied to the obesity gene deal?

aj said:

I think........the belt buckle cattle have one thing to offer genetically. FLESHING ability. AND if fleshing ability is tied to marbling somehow.........It would make sense to revisit this gene pool.

Click to expand...

But it's not tied to marbling. In fact, the traits are antagonistic! Both in general and within each breed population. 

They do offer fleshing ability,,, BUT at the expense of milk production, quality grades, yield grades, fertility, and any other 'output' trait you can name.

In any environment where a capiche calf weans 650, I can say will certainty that the resources are being under utilized as capiche is in the BOTTOM 1 percentile for growth. Imagine the potential even using a bull that's middle of the road in terms of performance. 

I would disagree. I don't see how marbling and fleshing ability are antagonistic.

XBAR, that calf surprised me too since the roan had been culled from a commercial herd for low growth. Maybe the commercial Angus genetics behind her got dealt out or maybe it's just heterosis. She was bred to my Shorthorn bull, Amos, who is probably too moderate . Another commercial Angus from the roans herd (1350 lb cow) weaned a 702 lb calf out of Amos and another one 658. Those were actual weights.
Must be the cross. But I have been questioning the grass gurus push to convert to 1100 lb cows.

People use extremes to change things up genetically. The milking shorthorns......in some ways.......saved the shorthorns...when they had to compete with the exotics in the 70's and there was a big push for high gaining cattle. It just seems like that SOMEWHERE there is a jpj son or grandson that retained a marbling ability.......in a genetic defect package.....that would be a goldmine........for the breed as far as improving marbling. You are not going to do it in one generation. Maybe its a jpj daughter that would make the step......producing the clean son or grandson.

Maybe a maternal half sister bred to a different Leader 21 son or vice versa.
Is JPJ's dam deceased?
Guess you have to track down the DS first. Have they tracked it down??

Jazzy the dam of JPJ is deceased.She weighed 1850lbs when we shipped her.I have a daughter pictured below by 4508 that will calve this spring to our Double Brute bull.Also have a couple embryo's in the tank of the same mating.I sent blood in about 3 weeks ago so I should have DS results back soon on this heifer.

r.n.reed said:

Jazzy the dam of JPJ is deceased.She weighed 1850lbs when we shipped her.I have a daughter pictured below by 4508 that will calve this spring to our Double Brute bull.Also have a couple embryo's in the tank of the same mating.I sent blood in about 3 weeks ago so I should have DS results back soon on this heifer.

Click to expand...

Do you have many cows that weigh 1850, or was she larger than average?

-XBAR- said:

Nice cow-


It's unfortunate what the scotch infusion did to the overall quality of these types.

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Besides her udder, what's wrong with her?

Hey! Jazzy is the dam of Ash Valley President 27.
Back when I was doing that epd sort for contemporary animals with numbers that matched the epd's for old Native bulls  I kept tripping over Ash Valley President every different way I did the sort. He was always at the top, but I disregarded him because of the asterisk. That is really neat. I hope the test comes back negative.

I kept wondering, who are these Ash Valley guys and how did they figure this out?