Best red Simmental bulls for AI

greenbriarfarms228 · Nov 5, 2017

I have a red purebred heifer calf that I'm looking to breed to a Red Bull. A little white is fine as well. Looking for a bull that is good on heifers and will also add a little frame as she is smaller. Any suggestions? Thanks!

Lucky_P · Nov 5, 2017

Used a cane of WS All In W111 on AngusXShorthorn heifers here a couple of years back.
All calves arrived easily with no assistance. Growth was good.
Only ended up with one heifer... and she was a top performer... is in the breeding herd now.

https://cattlevisions.com/detail.php?BullId=3752&bulltype=1

WinterSpringsFarm · Nov 5, 2017

Gargan has a sweet Loaded Up son named Red Revolver, he has a few calves from him this spring and he is making them right, and they come easy.

HPF just sold their bull HPF Tradecraft, a Milestone son with a sweet profile from a good cow family. A friend bought him and should still have semen for sale.

And Kappes Pendelton is another one that I really dig, seems to be super CE and awesome looking from the Miss Werning KP 8543U cow.

I'd use any of the 3 on a heifer if she were mine, and I do plan on using them all at some point in time.

Gargan · Nov 5, 2017

Red revolver has proven himself to be a safe choice on heifers. He's adding style, leg set , and performance to his calves. Papered 3/4 blood. https://cattlevisions.com/detail.php?BullId=4114&bulltype=1

Here's a daughter of his selling Tuesday on first choice online sales.

Steve123 · Nov 6, 2017

STF Dominance was really good a few years ago. His individual BW would not suggest heifer safe but his EPD for CE is 4.2.

http://silvertownefarms.com/Bulls/Details/ProductID/18/STF%20DOMINANCE%20T171

Mark H · Nov 6, 2017

Some of he bulls suggested here are all over the map for birth weight.
Just how easy claving do you want?
What frmae score you you want?

Mark

RyanChandler · Nov 6, 2017

Steve123 said:
STF Dominance was really good a few years ago. His individual BW would not suggest heifer safe but his EPD for CE is 4.2.

http://silvertownefarms.com/Bulls/Details/ProductID/18/STF%20DOMINANCE%20T171

Which doesn’t suggest calving ease either

mark tenenbaum · Nov 7, 2017

Gargan said:
Red revolver has proven himself to be a safe choice on heifers. He's adding style, leg set , and performance to his calves. Papered 3/4 blood. https://cattlevisions.com/detail.php?BullId=4114&bulltype=1

Here's a daughter of his selling Tuesday on first choice online sales.//// GOOD PROVEN CE RIGHT HERE O0

Lucky_P · Nov 7, 2017

That Red Revolver bull looks nice enough, but with a 40.9 WW epd, he'd never get a second look here.
Performance? There's not enough growth there for us... but we're a commercial outfit selling pounds across the scale, not 'show' calves. I'm not putting him down, it's just that a WW epd below 70 here requires some pretty substantial improvements in other areas to warrant consideration... even for a 'heifer' bull.
There are way too many of 'em out there with high CE and good growth(WW/YW) to settle for one in the bottom 5%.

mark tenenbaum · Nov 7, 2017

Lucky_P said:
That Red Revolver bull looks nice enough, but with a 40.9 WW epd, he'd never get a second look here.
Performance? There's not enough growth there for us... but we're a commercial outfit selling pounds across the scale, not 'show' calves. I'm not putting him down, it's just that a WW epd below 70 here requires some pretty substantial improvements in other areas to warrant consideration... even for a 'heifer' bull.
There are way too many of 'em out there with high CE and good growth(WW/YW) to settle for one in the bottom 5%.//// I havent encountered very many CE simms that are red-and In my case dont have alot of front and leather O0 O0 O0

Lucky_P · Nov 7, 2017

Mark,
I don't know anything about the show ring. Been around cattle all my 60 years, but never took a 'judging' class. I'm a commercial producer from the get-go; know what I like and need, don't care a whit what some judge thinks is 'the thing'. Leather, hair, freaky neck extension, open shoulder... I don't know or breed for more or less of any of those... just pounds across the scale, good mamas that milk enough to raise a decent calf and breed back... and if I can get marbling/ribeye/tenderness in the same package... so much the better.
But, I'm also aware that my choices may not be what gbf228 needs or wants.

Look at that WS All In W111 bull again - 16.9 CE/0.6 BW, 81 WW/112 YW.
Yes, they're just 'numbers', but my experience with him indicated that they hold up pretty well. Calving ease and performance. Has he got leather and front end?... you can look and make your own decision. I don't care. I got what I wanted from him. Would use him again if I was breeding for red.

Other red SM bulls I'd use if I could... WS Beef Maker R13, WS Beef King W107, RFS Red Iron, Hooks Yukon 80Y... most with pretty decent CE and good WW/YW... and good carcass traits to boot. But... market here wants black, so we're pushing back toward the dark side again(though I'm still using some of the Shorthorn semen in our tank on select cows, most are going to black/black baldy SM sires).

Gargan · Nov 7, 2017

I understand your argument on performance and ww, but remember that an expected #. All the calf reports I've gotten on him has been something like , " wow, those suckers grow". Not trying to toot the bulls horn but I'm going from factual reports and not epds..

Mark H · Nov 7, 2017

The main thijg to keep in mind here is that we know very little about this heifer besides she is small; about the OPs management capabilities we know nothing. I wany a bull in this case thaat is a specialist heifer bull with decent growth numbers (Both EPDs and own perfomance) My choice here is Kunz Sheriff: https://www.labattesimmentals.com/herd_bulls_pages/sheriff.htm. He is available from semex: http://www.semexusa.com/beef/i?lang=en&beef=view&view2=794268

Till-Hill · Nov 9, 2017

Mark H I just got some Sheriff semen and wondering what else besides calving ease you can tell me about him?

Mark H · Nov 10, 2017

The calves I saw were out of performance Fleck influenced females. He was used on these females for calving ease and see what kind of calves this small light birth weight bull would produce. The breeders that used him like his consistency on birth weight and other traits. He seems to be siring good footed calves (what can you see on yearlings?) with some eye appeal. He does not fit the mold of many calving ease bulls that put out plain, narrow cattle that are hard to market. People like his females as they seem practical in that they carry on the calving ease of the sire and aren't problem children. I would like to see how he would do on American bloodlines versus Canadian.

CAB · Nov 10, 2017

I also really like the looks of the bull Mark. IMO we should all be using bulls that are built similar to him. I have passed the info on this bull to some of my SM breeder friends. Hope that they try some of him.

Till-Hill · Nov 10, 2017

Mark H said:
The calves I saw were out of performance Fleck influenced females. He was used on these females for calving ease and see what kind of calves this small light birth weight bull would produce. The breeders that used him like his consistency on birth weight and other traits. He seems to be siring good footed calves (what can you see on yearlings?) with some eye appeal. He does not fit the mold of many calving ease bulls that put out plain, narrow cattle that are hard to market. People like his females as they seem practical in that they carry on the calving ease of the sire and aren't problem children. I would like to see how he would do on American bloodlines versus Canadian.

Thanks Mark, I am planning on using him on an Idea x TNT Top Gun, an Autobahn x Redestined, probably the Redestined.

Is he throwing an baldies on baldie cows?

Mark H · Nov 10, 2017

The Bonchuk's had a group of yearling bulls in their 217 bull sale and a few of the Fleck influenced bulls did have a blaze on their foreheads so we will put some white out if the cow shows it.

corn n cows · Nov 11, 2017

UNL Husker 84X is a halfblood from Select Sires, not in current catalog but still available. BW -5, API 150 Calves come black out of black cows, calves are VERY thick made.

https://issuu.com/selectsiresbeef/docs/2012beef/46

Bar 5 Harach, ya I know he is Fleck, does not make big fronted Canadian looking calves, available from numerous semen vendors. Makes showy simmys & "Fleck effect" eligable
http://www.bar5.com/animals/circle3bulls/harrach801p.htm

mark tenenbaum · Nov 11, 2017

Lucky_P said:
Used a cane of WS All In W111 on AngusXShorthorn heifers here a couple of years back.
All calves arrived easily with no assistance. Growth was good.
Only ended up with one heifer... and she was a top performer... is in the breeding herd now.

https://cattlevisions.com/detail.php?BullId=3752&bulltype=1//// Got any pics of them? Pretty nice breeding combo jmo O0 O0

Best red Simmental bulls for AI

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