Better calving ease bull???

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RankeCattleCo

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I'll be another to ask for  breeding advice.. gimme some slack, I'm a first time breeder.
We have a Milkman x PB Angus heifer that we're going to start breeding on in about 4 or so months.  She's Black, and I've been thinking about going the route of either JPJ to give a reg like 53% shorty plus or I-80 to get a 43% mainetainer.  I want the calf to be registerable, so I wanna stay with a few PB's or close to PB bulls.  I know that "This thread is worthless w/o pictures" so I'll rough clip (AND I MEAN ROUGH LOL) her head and back, just to clean her up.  I can upload some pictures later saturday.  Anyway, Troubadour came across my mind- he's a PB Char- and my heifer is 25% char, meaning the calf would be able to be reg as a comp. char based on pedigree.  I know all of these guys are halfway decent CE, but what of the three comp breeds are the most marketable right now?  She's real feminime, so I thought she'd pair good with I-80, but she would most likely throw some decent steers to.  I'm open to any suggestions and any other options.

I should have pics up by Saturday, pick her apart please!!!

Thanks,
Ryan
 

WJ Farms

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1-80 is a bul that is really really nice not gonna make one thicker but will make one zipper fronted.........I seen a Troubadour steer last night and he was thick thick thick..........and sound as a cat......so it possible with either.....but either or should be pretty easy to market..........
 

kfacres

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I hate to burst your bubble-- but I would seriously consider striving first go around for a live calf- instead of a percentage..  Seriously, with MM in there-- I hear he's not exactly the easiest calving bull in the world- and I'm sure his genetics will carry forward.  

now, with that being said-- I think alot of Angus bulls will work- as well as I80 and a VERY Select group of compostite and 3 way bulls...  You might be even able to find a 'heifer safe' char bull.

What I like to strive, and encourage people to do: is use that Angus bull first go around- and keep the heifer calf, that helps bulid your herd- and get that heifer- maternally- off to a great start...

Most of the time- people fight fire with fire: when it comes to breeding heifers.  
 

frostback

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The Chi association is the only one I think that keeps track of the % in the pedigree. Most other assc. do not care what the % is just what you have papers for. If you breed her to JPJ the calf would only be 50%. Troubadour is not a PB char, and the Char assc. would not care that your heifer was a percentage if she did not have Char papers to begin with. Keep that in mind, dont want you to be dissapointed when you go to register the calf.
 

OH Breeder

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Frosty is correct. If you do not have any shorthorn plus papers on your female now then breeding to Jazz would give you a 50% only.

Maine association- If you female is not registered any maine, then the first cross on the calf would only be half of the bull you use. So, if you use I-80 which is 87.50% you would get a a 43.75%

As far as the Charolais Association-
1. For purebreds 31/32 and up and notwithstanding parentage verification by DNA testing:
a. color is white, light straw, or light cream with pink skin
b. animal must not have a dark nose
c. animal must not be spotted
d. animal must not have excessive dark skin pigmentation
e. animal cannot have an unidentified sire or dam

2. For Charolais-cross under 31/32:
a. except for the first cross, the sire and dam must be registered or recorded in AICA herdbook
b. dam or sire on first cross must be registered Charolais not less than 31/32
c. sire having less than the 3/4 Charolais breeding is not eligible for recordation

BUT with the genetics you have I would go calving ease all the way. I know Milkman with HW in him has throw some larger BW's.
 

mainegirl

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I agree. A live, healthy calf is more important than being able to register the calf. Papers won't be necessary if you don't have a live one. From experience, I used I-80 on a milkman heifer and had great success. Was probably 80-85 pounds and she had it on her own and I did register the calf. I also have had better success with Gucci. They come small (70s-80s) and are pretty lively. They bloom a little later than I-80s but, like I said, they come small and my heifers and the calves are alive and healthy.
 

mark tenenbaum

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First of all-I didnt know Troubador is a purebred-hes got a Shorthornx2 other breeds dam. But hes clearly a real good bull-I would be hesitent on a hieferJMO. Maine girl above this a notch or two, has 2 very good suggestions-both would yield a Maintainer-180,and Gucci are purebreds-A JPJ-would be 50% and thus a Shorthorn Plus-as you can see-he crosses well with about anything-is clearly easy calving-but you wont get the performance like the other 2 Maines. Those three for breed animals,are about as good as it gets. O0
 

RankeCattleCo

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BS- Don't know if this sounds crazy but I was trying to stay away from an angus just because my heifer is 60% from the dam and part of MM's side.  The people we bought her from didn't have much info on her dam as far as sire or anything. Don't know how that happened... And isn't Troubadour a CE char?

OH breeder- I kinda forgot about the rule that says if one of the parents isn't reg then the calf won't carry any % from her. Is this correct?

Frostback- I think the rule for char comp states that if one of the parents has a reg char only a certain amount of generations back (can't remember how many...) and is bred to a reg bull and the calf is over 50% it's registerable?  Plus, if it was a steer we probably wouldn't worrying about registering it.  Figured we'd find as close to a PB bull w/o sacrificing that clubby "look" to guarantee a smoke.

Mainegirl- A live calf is 100% what we're aiming for, but we're trying to get a live calf that will be a little bit marketable and showable.  That's why we came up with I-80

Mark- Isn't he a -.1 for CE? I thought he was heifer safe.  But believe me, we don't want to ruin this one or have any problems.

I-80 is kind of making the most sense to me right now, just with the proven calving ease and that he should add some style and make the calf a little more marketable.  Thanks for all the help guys.  
 

OH Breeder

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RankeCattleCo said:
BS- Don't know if this sounds crazy but I was trying to stay away from an angus just because my heifer is 60% from the dam and part of MM's side.  The people we bought her from didn't have much info on her dam as far as sire or anything. Don't know how that happened... And isn't Troubadour a CE char?

OH breeder- I kinda forgot about the rule that says if one of the parents isn't reg then the calf won't carry any % from her. Is this correct?

Frostback- I think the rule for char comp states that if one of the parents has a reg char only a certain amount of generations back (can't remember how many...) and is bred to a reg bull and the calf is over 50% it's registerable?  Plus, if it was a steer we probably wouldn't worrying about registering it.  Figured we'd find as close to a PB bull w/o sacrificing that clubby "look" to guarantee a smoke.

Mainegirl- A live calf is 100% what we're aiming for, but we're trying to get a live calf that will be a little bit marketable and showable.  That's why we came up with I-80

Mark- Isn't he a -.1 for CE? I thought he was heifer safe.  But believe me, we don't want to ruin this one or have any problems.

I-80 is kind of making the most sense to me right now, just with the proven calving ease and that he should add some style and make the calf a little more marketable.  Thanks for all the help guys.  

Troubador is not in the Char database. So your female or her mother would have had to be registered. NOW, if you use a purebred bull on your female then you could register the calf. Like Denver or some of the other calving ease Char's.

BTW -CE you want a positive CE
Negative CEs mean more difficult calving while positive CEs mean easier calving.

 

Till-Hill

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Shear Force and get a % Simmental, when in doubt that's who I use. Or if you want a heifer calf there is sexed semen on alot of different bulls too. Just what I would use. In Dew Time works well too. Will be a touch more showy than the Shear Force.

I'm just not a fan of I-80 but I got a huge Char hfr I was thinking bout using him on to downsize her. See when May comes around what I decide but good luck.
 

mark tenenbaum

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Well-epds are 1 thing-and how a bull is made is another. Troubador is a massive bull. Granted Chars are not much to look at  when born then bloww you away later-but you have to remember this is a hiefer.The same goes for I 80-he is phenominally good,and thick. Sure your hiefer have one out of him?.An example is right above us in the I80 Thread by Maine Girl  RE :THE TRUCK  pictured at the Virginia Club calf show. He was jumping up and down good-AND-out of a Proud Jazz x bred daughter.If you have time-look at the picture of him from the rear-Im not saying he wieghed alot at birth,and just to toot horns-(I dont think cattle get any freakier than the Shorthorn-Chi-Maines) BUT I ALSO dont think a hiefer could have a calf like that-hes too massive and too thick. PS I was there-and he blew me and alot of other people away,and was a LOCAL CALF:which makes it that much cooler. O0
 

WJ Farms

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Actually Troubadour is in the Charolais database you have to spell his name correctly.......he is out a purebred bull and they consider him 24/32 but he is a registered Charolais click on the link and type in KBC TROUBADOUR and it will pop up




http://search.charolaisusa.com/anisch.aspx
 

vcsf

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WJ Farms said:
Actually Troubadour is in the Charolais database you have to spell his name correctly.......he is out a purebred bull and they consider him 24/32 but he is a registered Charolais click on the link and type in KBC TROUBADOUR and it will pop up




http://search.charolaisusa.com/anisch.aspx

But did you notice that it will be pretty difficult to register any calves by him seeing as they have him registered as a female.
 

mark tenenbaum

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vcsf said:
WJ Farms said:
Actually Troubadour is in the Charolais database you have to spell his name correctly.......he is out a purebred bull and they consider him 24/32 but he is a registered Charolais click on the link and type in KBC TROUBADOUR and it will pop up




http://search.charolaisusa.com/anisch.aspx

But did you notice that it will be pretty difficult to register any calves by him seeing as they have him registered as a female.
(lol)//// <party> <party> <party> (lol) (lol) (pop) O0 <beer> (clapping)
 

WJ Farms

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LOL thats funny but thats his pedigree so its gotta be him there aint another one.......
 

mainegirl

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mark tenenbaum said:
Well-epds are 1 thing-and how a bull is made is another. Troubador is a massive bull. Granted Chars are not much to look at  when born then bloww you away later-but you have to remember this is a hiefer.The same goes for I 80-he is phenominally good,and thick. Sure your hiefer have one out of him?.An example is right above us in the I80 Thread by Maine Girl  RE :THE TRUCK  pictured at the Virginia Club calf show. He was jumping up and down good-AND-out of a Proud Jazz x bred daughter.If you have time-look at the picture of him from the rear-Im not saying he wieghed alot at birth,and just to toot horns-(I dont think cattle get any freakier than the Shorthorn-Chi-Maines) BUT I ALSO dont think a hiefer could have a calf like that-hes too massive and too thick. PS I was there-and he blew me and alot of other people away,and was a LOCAL CALF:which makes it that much cooler. O0
Thank you Mark! Its nice to hear someone else likes him. I'm so proud of him and so happy he went to a good home. We did have to pull him, easy though. About 85 pounds, after about an hour I don't like to wait much longer for heifers to push them out so I give them a hand. After the success we had with I-80 on our heifers (including a Milkman heifer) we decided to use him on our heifers. IMO I like him better than his sire. I raise Maines and look at sires that I can register calves out of. Gucci and I-80 are those bulls that I am comfortable using on my heifers.
 

sue

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Troubadour is not safe for heifers.... i asked the breeder myself.
 

OH Breeder

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WJ Farms said:
Actually Troubadour is in the Charolais database you have to spell his name correctly.......he is out a purebred bull and they consider him 24/32 but he is a registered Charolais click on the link and type in KBC TROUBADOUR and it will pop up




http://search.charolaisusa.com/anisch.aspx

the rules for registration of less than 31/32.

2. For Charolais-cross under 31/32:

a. except for the first cross, the sire and dam must be registered or recorded in AICA herdbook
b. dam or sire on first cross must be registered Charolais not less than 31/32
c. sire having less than the 3/4 Charolais breeding is not eligible for recordation

Troubador would be just 75% if what you have posted is correct. 
 
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