Big Calves

I am sure a thread has already been a started on this topic but I could not find it. Since it is calving time I was wondering what are some of the biggest calves that you have had that have lived.  I just talked to my sisters the other day and they had twin bull calves with one weighing 104lbs and the other 107lbs.  I know this is two calves but 211lbs is the most weight I personally have ever heard of.  Both calves came unassisted and mom and both calves are doing great. (thumbsup)

The largest living calf I have ever seen was a pb Charolais, it was 164#



I did see several unassisted 145# Charolais calves.

I've got an embryo in a cow right now that could set a record Im afraid.  I think i'm just going to induce her a week early and schedule a c-section.

My cousin who is a Vet, did a c-section on a holstien cow last year that had a bull calf that weighed like 192 lbs!  He lived, and the local paper did a short story and picture on it.  They had to use a block and tackle on the ceiling of the vet clinic to get it hoisted out the side of the cow!  Truly amazing...

The biggest calf on our farm out of a simmental X angus cow was 134 pounds on assisted she is 21 right now she is in great shape she is made to have big thick calves.

If there is a breed that will lay down and have a 120# calf the Shorthorn cow has the best chance to do it. I always wondered if the industry should come to us or should we aim toward the industry. jmo

aj said:

If there is a breed that will lay down and have a 120# calf the Shorthorn cow has the best chance to do it. I always wondered if the industry should come to us or should we aim toward the industry. jmo

Click to expand...

I really hope your not implying that the rest of the cattle industry should be modeled after the shorthorns breeds ability to "lay down and have a 120# calf" sure they probably do it more than any other breed but at what cost? If you are then...I'm speechless. On the other hand to quote world renowned cattlemen Geordie Soutar "this starts with a live, easily calved animal, the calf has the rest of is life to grow".

DakotaCow said:

I really hope your not implying that the rest of the cattle industry should be modeled after the shorthorns breeds ability to "lay down and have a 120# calf" sure they probably do it more than any other breed but at what cost?

Click to expand...

no cost really if they can do it every time.  it's about calving ease, not how far you are from 100.  100 is like buying something at the store for 9.99 versus 10.00.  they are the same.  if 100 was say 73, people would worry a lot less about birth weight.  but since no one really seems to know what the look of calving ease is, including myself, they will stick with numbers.  to me though, a posty structure makes it difficult to have calves, as they just don't seem flexible enough to flex as they come up and over.  to me, that's why i like front end angle and length as well as some suppleness behind as well, narrow head between the horns and a front end that is moderate as opposed to heat wave's.  i don't have an opinion yet about depth related to calving ease.

knabe said:

DakotaCow said:

I really hope your not implying that the rest of the cattle industry should be modeled after the shorthorns breeds ability to "lay down and have a 120# calf" sure they probably do it more than any other breed but at what cost?

Click to expand...

no cost really if they can do it every time.  it's about calving ease, not how far you are from 100.  100 is like buying something at the store for 9.99 versus 10.00.  they are the same.  if 100 was say 73, people would worry a lot less about birth weight.  but since no one really seems to know what the look of calving ease is, including myself, they will stick with numbers.  to me though, a posty structure makes it difficult to have calves, as they just don't seem flexible enough to flex as they come up and over.  to me, that's why i like front end angle and length as well as some suppleness behind as well, narrow head between the horns and a front end that is moderate as opposed to heat wave's.  i don't have an opinion yet about depth related to calving ease.

Click to expand...

them narrow skulled SOB's can get pretty narrow from their back too!!!!  Bout all you need to do is look at a calf coming through the chute to determine if he has enough shit to him..

but on heifer bulls,,, I do like a 'narrower' head than most...  To me, it seems small, narrow head, small boned==== calving ease..but it's oftern a throwaway too

kfacres said:

them narrow skulled SOB's can get pretty narrow from their back too!!!!  Bout all you need to do is look at a calf coming through the chute to determine if he has enough **** to him..

but on heifer bulls,,, I do like a 'narrower' head than most...  To me, it seems small, narrow head, small boned==== calving ease..but it's oftern a throwaway too

Click to expand...

yup.  that's why there will be heifer bulls and cow bulls and the endless chase to do both in one package.  so, it seems like to make it worthwhile to actually have a live heifer bull on the place, you need a first calf heifer crop of at least 30, otherwise, only use ai.  then, you need a cow bull for the other 10-20 calves the cow will have.   to me, there is too much focus on heifer bulls as well as too much emphasis on cow killer bulls, ie heat wave.

About 10 years ago I tried Dreamboat on a HS Instant Enticer daughter who was completely unable to deliver his calf.  It was a long night, and in the end we had a 135 pound calf who unfortunately died during this procedure.  The cow lived to have many functional calves, but she would never be breed back to an extreeme bull.  The 135# calf may not seem big, but compared to the size of the cow it looked like a legitimate MONSTER. 

There was a time I thought I would raise club calves.  I will have to say that this site saved me thousands of dollars because I know see exactly how difficult it is to raise these animals.  Cheers to those of you who do it well!!!  Cheers!!!

gm

Ever notice at a boxing match how the ref will stop the fight and move it to the middle when an opponent gets backed in a corner? Who do we have in the cattle industry to ref for us? If your cows can't successfully calve 10% of their body weight, your back'in for the corner!

ELBEE said:

Ever notice at a boxing match how the ref will stop the fight and move it to the middle when an opponent gets backed in a corner? Who do we have in the cattle industry to ref for us? If your cows can't successfully calve 10% of their body weight, your back'in for the corner!

Click to expand...

I Like to hear you say this... I have been saying this for years- and feel that it's an ever growing population...  IMO you need to breed the mature cows to harder calving sires...  If you continually breed every one for calving ease, and then keep your own heifers, then your eventually downsizing your cow herd, and making it that much harder to find calving ease bulls becuase they will be a must.  Most of the time a big calf at birth, will be a big calf at weaning... 

I was speaking with Dr. Nord with Charlais, IL once, and he was telling me his opinions...  Of course he breeds his heifers to calving ease bulls- but he told me that those calves he really has no value with- sure he'll get a good one or two every year.. but those calving ease calves, out of those heifers will always be a little behind, and never as stout.  He says that he makes his old cow work...  Wants them all to have 100+ lb calves.  And it's from these genetcs he retains his heifers.  He doesn't want to downsize, and complicate calving issues in the future cowherd. 

Basically, I guess I'm saying that once you start using calving ease bulls on your heifers, and retaining some... you can't stop... and many people are in this situation. 

rambleing, I guess I just said the same thing 2x O0

the largest i ever saw came from a ranch by the name of the Newman Ranch in Montana, by c-section out of a simmental - angus  cow sired by a charolais, 189#.

i had a set of twins a few years ago, 96# and 102#...I thought she was done when the first was born and came back to find a second.

Definition of birthweight EPD: 1. A prehistoric means of measuring calving ease. 2. Enticement for fibbing. 3. De-evolution.

Definition of calving ease: 1. After breakfast, finding a calf nursing, followed by the thought. "Wow, that's a nice calf." 2. 83#. 3. See (Definition of birthweight EPD. Number 2).

ELBEE said:

Ever notice at a boxing match how the ref will stop the fight and move it to the middle when an opponent gets backed in a corner? Who do we have in the cattle industry to ref for us? If your cows can't successfully calve 10% of their body weight, your back'in for the corner!

Click to expand...

I myself am usually very disapointed to see a bigger cow with a 80 pound calf. We have a handful of 1500-1800lb cows but really do not think most of them would lay down and spit out a 150lb calf. 10% seems like a high number as I thought I recall hearing 8% one time but could be wrong. Does anyone else have a percentage to htrow out as fart as cow to calf BW??? I am just guessing we would have a hard time marketing those 140-150lb calves.I don't mind keeping a heifer with a 110lb BW but I also know then that regardless of what she is bred to may not have the 80lb calf that everyone wants a heifer to have. Unfortunately there are still some people out there though that come to buy a bull and DO NOT think the female puts half tyhe genetics into the calf!!

Not trying to be a thorn, but did anyone ever think of doing a pelvic measurement on the heifers before deciding what to breed them to?  The BIF has a great formula that's pretty darn accurate as to what size calf a heifer can deliver without dystocia  -- and I do agree that shape of the head & shoulders is important, these broad headed angus bull calves can cause a little difficulty passing (not a scientific fact, just experience).  Keep up the opinions -- I've found I often have changed mine after studying replies on steerplanet!

agree... here's the way I look at it...

Take a heifer with a 110 lb BW, who's bred genetically to have 110 BW...  Breed her to a contemp. brother also with that 110 BW...  She should have a 110 lb calf...  theoretically...  

now, breed that heifer to a narrow skulled, frail boned, 60# BW bull, who on his contemp sister would have 60# calves... and heifer 1's...  calf will get 1/2 genetics from each parent--  average the two together,,  and wallah  you got yourself an 85# calf... that- that can have with ease...  Sure your're not getting 60#ers, but your not getting 110's either

Now I admit it looks good on paper, but in reality, it doesn't happen like that... to many other factors... ie. nutrition, time of year, breed complementarity, etc...

Unfortunately there are still some people out there though that come to buy a bull and DO NOT think the female puts half the genetics into the calf!!
[/quote]


The female (and her husbandry) is responsible for 50% of the genetics + 100% of environment + 100% of the nutrition, which means to me = 82% calf size responsibility.