Big Calves ?

Our calves are way to big this year, lost the second one last night.  Lost a 110 heatwave heifer out of a three year old Ali cow.  Vet had to come and pull it out with the puller.  Two year old last night, another Ali cow was bred to Powertrip.another hard pull, she went down on us pulling the calf , probaly killed the calf at that point, because he was alive half way out.  Then she prolasped.  What  a year, only had nine cows to calf this year.  Got 4 really nice calves so far, but really hurts to lose those two.  I have one more two year old to calf to Monopoly getting realy scared for that one to come.  We've decided the long cold winter is maybe some of the problem, all our cows get is grass hay, but these calves are way two big for Ali cows I can tell you that.  Is everyone else having large calves?

Seen them all over the map this year. Mine have been. The biggest so far is 100 lb. and calved on her own. My brother just had a 125 lb. bull calf last week............This is the 4th set of calves off of the bull we share and the largest up until this year is 90 lb. We've chalked it up to such a long fall up here and the cows actually being in too good of condition going into the winter. Winter here wasn't as severe as usual and the cows packed it on over the winter.
All I can say is keep a close watch and sorry for your troubles.

Those are not that large for being heat waves and heat wave sons.  I will not  breed a cow to heat wave or his sons till their fourth calf because of the birth weight issue.  And more importantly is not the weight but how they are shaped.

Had a monopoly heifer at 90 lbs out of a big witch dr x tj cow. 

The other thing i noticed is that you feed your cows grass hay.  Do they get all they want?  I changed that two years ago and feed them what they need and not free choice.  The thing i have noticed is the cows are not as fat and seem to calf easier.  A fat cow has alot of energy left over to put on the calf and on her back.  Then you get a fat lazy cow with all that fat making the birth canal smaller.
Just my opinion but i have learned this from others over the years. 

I think that using Monopoly on a first calf 2 year old and Power Trip on the same type is kind of looking  for the worst & hoping for the best. Heat Wave as everyone knows will hand you troubles predictibly. That all being said, I expect to have larger than normal calves this year due to the extremely hard winter. The cows seem to have better blood flow to the embryos in this kind of winter. As far as the calf dying as the heifer/cow going down, I like it when they go down usually B/C I can lever the calf better with the puller. Sorry for your losses. Hope that the rest go well for you.

I think that the BIG CALVES thread is on every year! (lol)    Last year my calves Maybe averaged a little bigger than normal, but I am a litlle worried for this year, the biggest reason being that the cows did not get out in the feild and get the exercise the need due to the deep snow.

I do not like to full feed hay as well myself, stalks yes, not hay. I can't afford that! (lol)

You can predict large calves when you breed to certain bulls. Most of them are three/four way crosses and are unpredictable. It is well documented that certain bulls, (HW, Mono, etc) have high birth weights. Sometimes you just get what you hope you don't get.

That being said, my calves have been small this year. Ranging from 51 pounds (alive and full of piss and vinager) to 95 pounds (unassisted, Dr. Who). 
I fed my cows as I always do, depending on weather. They get free choice hay, started corn silage in Jan. 
I am not close to being half way done, so maybe things will change.... but so far, no problems.

Find easier calving bulls!!!    <beer> <beer>

I'd get you 2 year old into a vet and have them tell you if she can have that calf, that combo is asking for trouble.  I like my calves big, but anything Heat Wave needs to go on an older proven cow.

Had one drop her waterbag the other day.  Gave her an hour.  Got her in the chute.  Felt a foot the size of a beer can.  Took her straight to the vet and did a c-section. Time from waterbag out until calf out was 2 hours. As much as I hate spending $250 for the c-section, I hate a dead club calf even worse.  We have also been inducing anything suspect up to a week early.  Don't know how much that helps, but its been working good so far.

These are actually average size calves for the bulls you are using. The problem is the age of cattle they are bred too. I would not breed anything under 6 years old to any of the Heatwave or Flush bloodiness. Most of the Heatwaves we have had in the past ranged between 95 and 130 lbs. And I emphasize "in the past.". We are small too and can't afford dead calves and dead cows.

Most research shows you can't create big calves by feeding to much.  What you can to is make your cows to fleshy and they become lazy and exhausted when pushing.  This is probably the easiest calving we have had in years bw's have been very moderate and in many cases lower than expected.

irh said:

Our calves are way to big this year, lost the second one last night.  Lost a 110 heatwave heifer out of a three year old Ali cow.   Vet had to come and pull it out with the puller.  Two year old last night, another Ali cow was bred to Powertrip.another hard pull, she went down on us pulling the calf , probaly killed the calf at that point, because he was alive half way out.  Then she prolasped.  What  a year, only had nine cows to calf this year.  Got 4 really nice calves so far, but really hurts to lose those two.  I have one more two year old to calf to Monopoly getting realy scared for that one to come.  We've decided the long cold winter is maybe some of the problem, all our cows get is grass hay, but these calves are way two big for Ali cows I can tell you that.  Is everyone else having large calves?

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You're calves are perfectly normal sized for what you were breeding. Heatwave + Ali= Big Calves. You don't ever put anything out of heatwave(powertrip and monoply) on a 1st calf heifer and expect them to calve by them selves, let alone make it through it. Just because the heifers are out of Ali doesn't mean they are going to make heatwave work as a calving ease bull. Do your research before you put anything in your heifers. Look at the Heatwave x Ali matings that are out there, they are STOUT, BIG BONED, AND BIG BW'S....In other words not calving ease.

Thanks for everyone's opion's,  still trying to figure out what to be my Ali's to next year.  Might go back to Witchdoctor and Dr. Who. 

Well i had three today ranging from 80 to the last one i estimate at 120 when i picked him up.    Rodman heifer at 80 lbs estimate cant weigh that one cow would bury you in the spot.  Then gold member at 90 lbs had to pull upside down.  Second one of these in two years.  Then just two hours ago 120 lb monopoly i will weigh him tomorrow.  But the cow had him with no trouble.  Put her in barn at 6:30 thanks to all the mud.  And at 7:45 went in the barn and she was pushing and out he came.  Wasnt expecting him to be that big.  Her monopoly heifer last year was only 85.  But he is one stout hairy and huge hip.  Amazed she could get that size and shape out by herself.  Good thing it is her fifth calf.

hamburgman said:

Most research shows you can't create big calves by feeding to much.  What you can to is make your cows to fleshy and they become lazy and exhausted when pushing.  This is probably the easiest calving we have had in years bw's have been very moderate and in many cases lower than expected.

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I personally, would challenge that research. I believe "feed management" is 1/3 of the calving equation. The other 2/3 being genetics and environment.

I would challenge that also but did you ever notice that in a feed yard of fat heifers.  If one has a calf they are always a little thing.  You would think with 20 lbs of corn a day you would get a huge calf.

irh said:

Thanks for everyone's opion's,  still trying to figure out what to be my Ali's to next year.  Might go back to Witchdoctor and Dr. Who. 

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Are you not listening???????????  You have Ali heifers and your having trouble with them calving, and your are getting DEAD CALVES.  Why in the he)) would you breed them to Dr.Who????  Why not have a goal of having LIVE calves that you can actually sell later?  Try come calving ease angus, red angus. 

Sometimes people never learn, get what they deserve and most of them shouldn't own cattle. 

Today’s Steerplanet Self Righteously Judgmental Moment™ is brought to you by Show Heifer.

Show Heifer, for all those moments when you wonder whether others approve of how you manage your show cattle.

We have had 5 calves this year from rocking b final answer and the Maine anjou Jazz bull all have been 75-120 pounds all except one was unassisted. Haven't lost one yet thank god!

carl s. said:

Today’s Steerplanet Self Righteously Judgmental Moment™ is brought to you by Show Heifer.

Show Heifer, for all those moments when you wonder whether others approve of how you manage your show cattle.

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A person can go a long way towards not having a calving disaster by using heifers of the right size, with adequate pelvic area, and using bulls that are slick fronted, with high accuracy low BW high CE EPDs -

A person can create a big disaster for themselves by using clubby bulls with big shoulders and mondo hips on heifer or cows with inadequate pelvic area - this same person can increase the mess by feeding way too much silage or concentrate to their heifers - fat heifers have issues

if you look at the USDA report (as I recall) overall calf mortality (day 1) is much lower in places where they make their living selling cattle than the clubby world. Also if you look at heifers that require assistance in the "real world" it is also much lower than in those herds that breed for the great one at all costs

You can increase your chance of having a live calf and cow or heifer by judicious selection of the bull you use and having the heifer or cow in adequate /good (not fat) body condition

You can increase your risk of having a disaster by picking the wrong bull to use on the wrong fat heifer -

these are basically decisions you make to increase your chance of having success - which is exactly what SH said, but apparently carl didn't like the package - if you want live calves you need to make some changes in your breeding selections...