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Offline caledon101

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2013, 09:43:51 PM »
Agreed. Any judge who would place an animal lower in a class due to it's nose colour is nothing more than a follower of fad and fashion.

Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2013, 09:22:25 AM »
Not agree. A judgement is based on what judge see on that day specifically and based on what judge believe to be the ideal for him. If on judge mind the black nose is not good, he is right to send the animal for back. This is called free choice!

If a judge from a country were black nose isn't accept and this is "strange" for him, naturally the animal will to be back on line.

So what think about cow killers, many times described here, that are widely used on US. They are also fashion bulls that will directly affect the productive aims with a non live calf.

Some thinks are controversial, depending of side where you is looking!

Offline frostback

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2013, 10:31:28 AM »
.

So what think about cow killers, many times described here, that are widely used on US. They are also fashion bulls that will directly affect the productive aims with a non live calf.



Those cow killers that some keep speaking of, have no personal experience with those genetics and are only preaching what they feel is happening. Take most of what you read here with a grain of salt. Some try to sway with fear and theory, with NO proof.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 10:33:41 AM by frostback »
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Offline caledon101

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2013, 11:17:38 AM »
EVERY breed has heroes and villians when it comes to calving ease, disposition, performance and so on. There isn't a breed out there than can claim otherwise. Demonizing Shorthorns is unfair.

Purebred breeders have the unenviable task and responsibility of trying new things and taking much greater risks in the pursuit of improvement and advancement. Progressive purebred breeders literally seek risk and the commercial man is averse to it.
We all have our own personal tolerance for risk. My view? If you aren't living on the edge.....then you are probably taking up too much space.

Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2013, 03:50:16 PM »
.

So what think about cow killers, many times described here, that are widely used on US. They are also fashion bulls that will directly affect the productive aims with a non live calf.



Those cow killers that some keep speaking of, have no personal experience with those genetics and are only preaching what they feel is happening. Take most of what you read here with a grain of salt. Some try to sway with fear and theory, with NO proof.

Well I only describe a designation widely used here! If they are not, why so many people use this designation!
Yes, not experience with and never will have as well. Fortunatelly my calves born with 28 to 35 kg, not is necessary use this kind genetics.
Finally my cattle is profitable due to be free of this genetics.
Lucky with your cattle.   (thumbsup)

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2013, 06:05:04 PM »
Sounds like there are quality issues with judges no matter what era it is. If they were picking on nose colour and not quality.

Quality is only perceived within the parameters set forth by BREED STANDARDS AND CHARACTERISTICS.  Black noses aren't a characteristic of shorthorns.  I don't care how many animals are mentioned throughout history that have had black noses.  All those references do is validate genetic infusion from another breed.

BREEDS, noun;
a stock of animals or plants within a species having a DISTINCTIVE APPEARANCE and typically having been developed by deliberate selection.
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Offline justintime

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2013, 07:06:18 PM »
Sounds like there are quality issues with judges no matter what era it is. If they were picking on nose colour and not quality.

Quality is only perceived within the parameters set forth by BREED STANDARDS AND CHARACTERISTICS.  Black noses aren't a characteristic of shorthorns.  I don't care how many animals are mentioned throughout history that have had black noses.  All those references do is validate genetic infusion from another breed.

BREEDS, noun;
a stock of animals or plants within a species having a DISTINCTIVE APPEARANCE and typically having been developed by deliberate selection.

Ryan.... I guarantee that black noses ( not including the ones from appendix sources) go back to the very foundation of the breed. If you read some of Duncan Marshall's book " Shorthorn Cattle in Canada which was printed in 1932, and is a history of the Shorthorn breed in Canada from the first importations in 1832, to 1932, he makes reference to some black nosed animals making the trip over. He states that the black nose occurs at a relatively low incidence as breeders select against it, however, it is still occuring. Some Irish importations have increased this again.
Experience is what you get when you don't have it when you need it.

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Offline frostback

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2013, 07:19:45 PM »
Sounds like there are quality issues with judges no matter what era it is. If they were picking on nose colour and not quality.

Quality is only perceived within the parameters set forth by BREED STANDARDS AND CHARACTERISTICS.  Black noses aren't a characteristic of shorthorns.  I don't care how many animals are mentioned throughout history that have had black noses.  All those references do is validate genetic infusion from another breed.

BREEDS, noun;
a stock of animals or plants within a species having a DISTINCTIVE APPEARANCE and typically having been developed by deliberate selection.

Do you have proof? Sounds like it has been happening for a long time. How long back is far enough to be a breed characteristic?
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Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2013, 08:00:05 AM »
I'm becoming enough!

Why here in SP, almost always, when a person shows a different view point to another, there is a tendency to aggression by those who have divergent points!

For all here....people show different view points, as they live in different enviroments and need different genetics. If my one isn't the right one, maybe your one also is not!

I'm on this forum to discuss matters that are unknown to me and learn with it, or to try to help some people with my experiences in livestock.

I will say that I am being well educated not exposing what I really think about some topics or about some people that come here to talk about their ideas.

Offline frostback

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2013, 08:29:51 AM »
I just asked questions to someone who made a statement. Not sure how that is so bad. Kinda doing what you just said doesn't happen, in trying to think about new views. Maybe the black nose is a mutation. Just like polled was way back when but the polled thing was seen as good and bred for. Was the black seen as bad and just avoided? Could it have become the norm if bred for in the 30s like is was reported to be seen?
Guess ill stay away from shorthorn threads.
Some peoples true character only comes out in PMs.

Offline caledon101

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2013, 02:24:09 PM »
Here's an April yearling with a black nose. Her pedigree is like royalty and we get this black nose. I couldn't care less. She ain't getting the hot potato treatment either.
Beautiful disposition. I gave her to my 15 year daughter as birthday present last night. She was thrilled.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2013, 03:23:29 PM »
What's her reg #?
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Offline caledon101

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2013, 10:15:42 AM »
TRUMP X X-[US]*3909231- 
     WHR SONNY 8114 X-[CAN]AR10749-     
        WR4 RODEO CUMBERLAND 3R52 -[USA]*3920507- 
   GCC DEFIANCE X-[CAN]AR19244-       
         CF TRUMP X X-[US]*3909231- 
      CF 20 QUEENS 571 TPX X-[USA]*4094389-     
        CF RODEO CASINO 100 -[USA]*3888202- 
PL MISS CHATELAINE 9Z       
        CCS EQUITY'S CHARMER X-[CAN]AR8968- 
      FANTASY LANE HIGH VOLTAGE 5T X-[CAN]*16244-     
         POPLAR LANE FANTASY 7N X-[CAN]*11943- 
   PL DAISY BROADHOOKS 6W X-[CAN]*17375-       
        PL UNFORGIVEN 9R X-[CAN]M471498- 
     PL DAISY BROADHOOKS 7T X-[CAN]F683646-     
       PL LILY BROADHOOKS 8R X-[CAN]*14541- 


Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2013, 01:42:22 PM »
GCC Defiance being linebred RD- a shorthorn cross bull w/ a black nose- is likely the culprit. 
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Offline caledon101

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Re: Black noses on Shorthorn
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2013, 06:03:19 PM »
Rodeo Drive is bred up from Chianina if I am correct....he is rated at 92%....not quite what I would classify as being cross bred.

 

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