Breed identity?

I'm curious what traits everyone considers when talking about "breed identity"?  Size, color, etc.?   I was having a discussion with another breeder about this topic & it quickly became obvious that one of us was single trait selecting when mentioning this topic & the other was multi-trait selecting.  Can you single trait select or should you consider several aspects or should you consider ever aspect?  Where do you draw the line & can you omit certain traits?  Also, should fullblood cattle be held to "breed identity" standards?  Should registered percentage cattle be held to "breed identity" standards (should they all look virtually identical to fullbloods)?  I remember the Tarentaise breed refused to allow black purebreds to show & I thought that was a huge mistake (again breed a identity issue).  Anyway, every breed seems to deal with this issue sooner or later, and when they do, the debate often gets pretty heated, so I thought that it would make for some interesting discussion.  I am interested to hear your opinions about "breed identity" & how important it is, regardless of your "breed".     


Below are 5 Lowline animals...

Fullblood bull weighing 1,465 lb.
5 month old percentage red bull with a little roaning probably weighing around 400 give or take.
A percentage grey white face (weanling calf, frame 4)
A 100% Angus influenced cow (1/2 Lowline X 1/2 Angus)... 48 inches tall & upper 1,300 lbs (might as well say 1,400 lbs.).
A fullblood bull... 2 1/2 years old.  Probably weighing 1,000 lbs. give or take.   

Just for the fun of it, which of these exhibit "breed identity" for Lowline Cattle & which don't?  Or do they all fail?   

to me Maines carry a maternal trait. That is why I like purebreeds, you start adding clubbie genetics & you sacrifice some of those maternal qualities. Never had a fullblood. The cows are usually very docile & easy keepers to me. personally I like red ones but that is just my preference.

Red

I think many of todays breeds have already lost their identity. I am old enough to remember when simentals were either red and white or yellow and white, limosins were red, gelbveihs were yellow or red, chi's were white, salers were red and now we talk of black and white herefords. I'm sure there are other breeds that I have ommitted as well. Back before DNA I think there was alot of "importing genetics" for certain traits that contributed to breeds loosing their identity. I doubt that there is a breed that has escaped the questionable practices of infusing "new blood" into the gene pool, this is a sad truth that everyone has come to accept as the norm. RW

One thing I love about Braunvieh is that they look different, white muzzle, mousey brown color. If they are fulblood, that is. There are also black and white ones, and everything in between.

I know very little about lowlines but I would not think those middle animals were lowlines, at least by the picture.

ROAD WARRIOR said:

I think many of todays breeds have already lost their identity. I am old enough to remember when simentals were either red and white or yellow and white, limosins were red, gelbveihs were yellow or red, chi's were white, salers were red and now we talk of black and white herefords. I'm sure there are other breeds that I have ommitted as well. Back before DNA I think there was alot of "importing genetics" for certain traits that contributed to breeds loosing their identity. I doubt that there is a breed that has escaped the questionable practices of infusing "new blood" into the gene pool, this is a sad truth that everyone has come to accept as the norm. RW

Click to expand...

I also remember white Chi's, red "curly haired" Salers,  yellow or red'ish Gelbvieh's, red Limosin's, Red/yellow & white Simmi's & Herford's that didn't look like those old Simmi's.  

Honestly, I can say that I am glad that the fullblood Lowlines are using DNA & trying to keep the breed pure.  But, the percentage registry is coming under debate.      

braunvieh said:

I know very little about lowlines but I would not think those middle animals were lowlines, at least by the picture.

Click to expand...

That's the type of answer that I was fishing for. 

Thank you!

ROAD WARRIOR said:

I think many of todays breeds have already lost their identity. I am old enough to remember when simentals were either red and white or yellow and white, limosins were red, gelbveihs were yellow or red, chi's were white, salers were red and now we talk of black and white herefords. I'm sure there are other breeds that I have ommitted as well. Back before DNA I think there was alot of "importing genetics" for certain traits that contributed to breeds loosing their identity. I doubt that there is a breed that has escaped the questionable practices of infusing "new blood" into the gene pool, this is a sad truth that everyone has come to accept as the norm. RW

Click to expand...

Well, I raise Angus and one thing that has always remained constant is that they can be pretty stupid at times! ;D  I know you left out angus but there has been an infusion of different genetics in this breed as well.  I believe it was Red who said that the purebreds are more maternal and I am in total agreement. I would think that Black Herefords would be a tremendous breed to have in production.

I think the best way to put it is we "Americanized" our breeds aka made them whatever we wanted. I went to Europe last summer and I saw lots of fullblood Charolais, Simmental,  and Brown Swiss. None of the cattle I saw were crossbred, which I find fascinating.

the only single trait selection that works is selecting for profit.

I must have different bloodlines than Red, I see Maines as being great show stock, but lacking in maternal qualities, our purebred Angus beat our Maines by 100% when it comes to maternal, but the the Maines win hands down when it comes to temperment, the Angus are nuts.

In theory there should be maternal breeds, breeds that do well in low input enviroments,showbreeds,marble carcass, and yield and grow breeds. If you can't plug them into a balanced crossbreeding system why do they exist?

Single trait selection is the fastest way to make genetic progress. The problem is when you breed for only one thing, you lose other things.

A lot of different breeds look about the same. But a lot of animals of the same breed look completely different. It's kind of amusing, especially in shows were all the breeds show against each other.

i think the little calf to the left in the olson pic looks the most like a lowline.

breed identity.  if you can sell it, it matters.

Jill said:

I must have different bloodlines than Red, I see Maines as being great show stock, but lacking in maternal qualities, our purebred Angus beat our Maines by 100% when it comes to maternal, but the the Maines win hands down when it comes to temperment, the Angus are nuts.

Click to expand...

Jill, it may have something to due w/ the fact that's all I've raised!  (lol)