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Offline HF CHARS

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2012, 08:48:03 PM »
I would recommend that you as breeders of composites come to the fall board meetings,,I think the AICA is missing a real opportunity with these composite cattle,,they have great merritt in the industry,,,but as a association we shun them,,don't offer open shows,and make it difficult for breeders that are utilizing the char genetics for something other than purebred ,

Offline Freddy

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2012, 09:44:40 PM »
HF CHARS , i DIDN'T FULLY UNDERSTAND  you or misunderstood the association ,I took it that a registerd Charolais composite  bull  X A registered Charolais composite female the calf could be a registered composite  animal ....  If this is not possible it's a waste of everyone's time ........period

Offline veritas

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2012, 01:54:57 AM »
When the Composite division was created, initially only animals with one purebred parent were allowed, limiting its usefulness.  That has been changed a couple years ago and now composite to composite matings are allowed as long as 50% Charolais is maintained. 

Offline Freddy

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2012, 11:06:11 AM »
VERITAS -THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP ,I think what happened if I recall correctly is they put in composite heifer first and then added the coposite bull where you could continue raising basically half blood Charolais cattle .I remember 55 years years ago when family had basically Hereford  cows and the half -3/4 blood cows were some of the very best made ,quite a change from the Herefords at that time ....Very much impressed with your NUTTER BUTTER bull and think he will definitely be an assett to the Composite program,I think the Charolais composite is a key to raising less THC & PHAC   cattle in this business with just as much natural muscling ....

Offline Mark H

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2012, 05:28:29 PM »
Veritas,

Any percentage  bull recorded in the Charolais herdbook has to be minimum 3/4 Charolais.  Check out the rules on this:  http://www.charolaisusa.com/rules.html
When dealing with the AICA or any other major breed association remember it is ran by breeders that want to sell purebreds, particularly bulls, and not percentage cattle.  For the European  breeds the grading up process was done long ago.  If you what to change the rules you must be prepared to show them that:
1.  Having shows for non traditionally marked Charolais will benefit the breed and will not reduce the value of  the color "stamp" a traditional  Charolais bull will put on a calf (not confuse people).
2.  How will this increase the market value for their  white bulls and potential markets denied to them (Canadian and Australian examples).
If you can't do these two things I don't like the odds.  In Canada red factor cattle were produced as a way for some breeders to differentiate their product from other breeders cattle in a well established breed.  In the United States this is not the case as the Charolais has no where near the market acceptance enjoyed in Canada so the white color is an important part of the breeds identity.

Offline Freddy

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2012, 09:38:18 PM »
WHY was i allowed to register 1/2 blood bulls then, they sure took my money ....If you need a copy of them I can sure send them to you ....Happened about two years ago ,no wonder their not reconized to much if this  is the situatuion ...

Offline Mark H

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2012, 09:51:00 PM »
If the website is up to date: Rule 2.c. : "c. sire having less than the 3/4 Charolais breeding is not eligible for recordation"

Offline Freddy

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2012, 10:05:46 PM »
NOT SURE what happened or who got what done but under MP203 -i have a BULL ISTED AS true grit and you can figure out the percentage ....

Offline Mark H

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2012, 10:15:16 PM »
Freddy,

What is the full name and registration number of this recorded half blood bull?

Offline Freddy

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2012, 10:32:28 PM »
FR-SILVER GHOST 8830--  REG. ---EMP 7     ISSUED 08-18-2008  ----------tHIS WAS THE FIRST ONE    THE ONE UP ABOVE IS MP203  ----the last one issued in 2010 -august is FR-STYLE 0810 ET reg. no. EMP 264   what a deal ....IS THERE A COLOR CODE FOR THE 3/4 BLOOD BULLS ...saw WHERE ON THE PUREBRED THEY REQUIRED  no spots, this must have started after the bull BAUMANS KRUGGERAND .....

Offline Mark H

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2012, 11:14:59 PM »
Feddy,

You got me on that one.  Just what does the prefix "EMP" mean?  I am used to having recorded bulls with the prefix "RM" not EMP.  Are these bulls recorded on the herd book or as part of the records system you get with total herd reporting?  Perhaps you have enrolled this calf into total herd enrollment with out a recording number (RM).  It would be nice to find out from the AICA. 
In Canada if you have a  recorded animal out of a QFC or QMC the recorded animal is a Q as well.  I think this is how it would work in the U. S. for colored cattle.

Offline Freddy

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2012, 09:21:52 AM »
THE   E stands for embryo and the MP in my estimation is MALE PERCENTAGE .....go to web site and you can look them up with those numbers ....

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2012, 09:28:27 AM »
No bull less than 31/32 can be REGISTERED in the Charolais Assoc.  Prior this this cross they are RECORDED.

What is this about the Spots and BAUMANS KRUGGERAND?   I bought a bull from M6 Charolais in Jack Moore's Dispersal.  I have his first calf crop on the ground and I'll be damned if there's not a quarter of the calves w/ spotting on their tail, tailhead, and down the inner legs.  These are black and red crossbred cows w/ absolutely ZERO spotting in their background.  After doing some research, apparently there are some Charolais that carry a spotting gene- Said because some are actually "white" instead of a "creme", that the spotting can go unnoticed in the bull but then be expressed in the offspring.  

Supporting this composite bull junk is terrible for the Char Association.   The only associations you see that support using composite bulls are those that do it as an act of desperation to increase their herd book #s and revenue..  Do you see the Angus Association promoting Balancers or Limflex???  Of course not!  Those are the efforts of the desperate.  
Friends don't let friends use crossbred bulls

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Offline cyclone38

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2012, 10:46:56 AM »
So I will throw this question into the mix then. I have a 3/4 Charolais heifer that has turned out to be really nice looking and am excited about what she can do. I bought her off a neighbor as a bottle calf and he bred her using a purebred bull that they never registered as a purebred and bred her to a Charolais x Angus cow. The question is, with all the genetic testing that is available, can you do the testing and have her genetics looked at and then registered??

Offline Freddy

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Re: BREEDERS raising CHAROLAIS composites to register ....
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2012, 11:00:22 AM »
XBAR --The Angus don't haft to cater to the X-bred deall cause they have already got it mixed in,why do you think they are checking for all these genetic  defect, think those just showed up from a time tested breed closed to other breeds, I'M no  DOCTOR OF GENETICS  but can figure this one out ....Look at their CAB program it promotes black cattle and no bonus if their ANGUS ,supposedly are to be atleast 50 % to qualify,and then we all know the guidlines for big business ....PROFIT

 

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