We have a nice deep ribbed angus cow that we have bred clubby for the last couple years with good results . This year we are going to try to breed her maternally for a heifer. This cows calves always need more flank. I would like to breed her to a simmi bull. In your experience what bulls will add more flank or balance to calves.
BREEDING FOR BALANCE
- Thread starter flcc
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kfacres
Well-known member
flank is perhaps the poorest breeding decision goal one could have...
flank is brought on with feed, roughage, fat, and time almost all the time
-- unless you mate to something of a polar extreme.
balance is also in the eye of the beholder
if you have an angus cow-o- she needs bred to rendition.. it will also pay off in the future with the added color advantage he can be known to throw.
flank is brought on with feed, roughage, fat, and time almost all the time
-- unless you mate to something of a polar extreme.
balance is also in the eye of the beholder
if you have an angus cow-o- she needs bred to rendition.. it will also pay off in the future with the added color advantage he can be known to throw.
Yes, BS...you do get MORE flank when cattle get fatter/more mature, but there are also cattle that are deeper middled and those that are more shallow... I think what flcc is looking for is a bull that produces maternal power in terms of broody females that have some middle and depth.
I manage some Angus cows and have used Rendition. Those calves are not bad. My best calves, though, are out of PRS Blazin' Hot, another baldy bull that is working really well on Angus females. The calves come small and grow. They're loose made and sound structured. And the heifers are deep sided and easy doing. I'll wean the first calves by him in April. I'll try to have some photos to post...I'm pretty proud of em. Compared to Rendition, Blazin Hot is homozygous black (Rendition is red gene carrier) and he has better EPDs. I particularly like his API of $136 which is in the top 4% of the breed. There aren't many good baldy bulls that can match his numbers, and even fewer that are homozygous black. And I've looked for em!
Anther bull I would consider if you don't care about the blaze/baldy thing is Ellingson Legacy M229 aka "Olie" at ABS. Olie is more known for adding length and muscle, but I haven't seen him take away on depth either. He works really well on Angus cows and makes nice half blood females. His sire, Legacy, is one of the best cow-making Simmental bulls around, and I think Olie will follow in his footsteps. And the Olie calves may be a little flashier than the Blazin Hots, but the first Blazin Hot calves are not ugly, either. I will tell you this...Olie's picture in the ABS catalog is not pretty. I wouldn't judge him based on that. Instead, ask people who have seen the calves...the ones I've seen have been sound structured, moderate sized, stylish and just pretty complete.
If you do choose a blaze faced bull, understand that most of these bulls will throw blaze faces / baldies about 50% of the time. So don't be disappointed if you breed for a baldy and don't get one. If you wanna try to get a blaze faced calf, use the best baldy bull you can find and hope for the best. If you do get it, it's a bonus. I wouldn't use a bull JUST because he's a baldy because your chances at getting the white face aren't any better than getting a solid black calf.
I manage some Angus cows and have used Rendition. Those calves are not bad. My best calves, though, are out of PRS Blazin' Hot, another baldy bull that is working really well on Angus females. The calves come small and grow. They're loose made and sound structured. And the heifers are deep sided and easy doing. I'll wean the first calves by him in April. I'll try to have some photos to post...I'm pretty proud of em. Compared to Rendition, Blazin Hot is homozygous black (Rendition is red gene carrier) and he has better EPDs. I particularly like his API of $136 which is in the top 4% of the breed. There aren't many good baldy bulls that can match his numbers, and even fewer that are homozygous black. And I've looked for em!
Anther bull I would consider if you don't care about the blaze/baldy thing is Ellingson Legacy M229 aka "Olie" at ABS. Olie is more known for adding length and muscle, but I haven't seen him take away on depth either. He works really well on Angus cows and makes nice half blood females. His sire, Legacy, is one of the best cow-making Simmental bulls around, and I think Olie will follow in his footsteps. And the Olie calves may be a little flashier than the Blazin Hots, but the first Blazin Hot calves are not ugly, either. I will tell you this...Olie's picture in the ABS catalog is not pretty. I wouldn't judge him based on that. Instead, ask people who have seen the calves...the ones I've seen have been sound structured, moderate sized, stylish and just pretty complete.
If you do choose a blaze faced bull, understand that most of these bulls will throw blaze faces / baldies about 50% of the time. So don't be disappointed if you breed for a baldy and don't get one. If you wanna try to get a blaze faced calf, use the best baldy bull you can find and hope for the best. If you do get it, it's a bonus. I wouldn't use a bull JUST because he's a baldy because your chances at getting the white face aren't any better than getting a solid black calf.
kfacres
Well-known member
he says the cow is deep ribbed.. but needs flank.. I assume his goal is to specifically add flank, not rib shape...
alot of that flank lacking is likely due to past genetic selection.. and the fact that most any angus, or sim bull will put more body on one than a clubby bull will--- for good reason.
alot of that flank lacking is likely due to past genetic selection.. and the fact that most any angus, or sim bull will put more body on one than a clubby bull will--- for good reason.
WJ Farms said:
I'm just curious, so I'm gonna ask... Is this recommendation based on your personal opinion of the calves you've actually seen by these bulls or is it based on photos of the bulls and what you've heard about them from other people who like them? Like I said...just curious.
mark tenenbaum
Well-known member
Limestone Trifecta-and or some of the really cool new Simmis-like the $50 per straw deal American Savior-or something like that O0
savaged
Well-known member
Leanbeef, how about the same goals, but with Simmy cows from Legacy and Dream-On? What Angus bull would you use?
Mill Iron A
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I guess I'm a little confused if all you want is flank but I have seen some really nice Winchester calves.
savaged said:
Wow...well, I guess anybody who has read much from me on here knows I'm a big fan of the Legacy daughters. We have some and all are in the top cut of our cow herd. My biggest consideration at breeding time is trying to boost the growth EPDs on those cows' calves...so in our program, I look for bulls with high growth numbers. We're paying a lot of attention to API, so that's a consideration for every mating I make. We had some nice calves out of Pioneer last year...one of those was a bull out of a Legacy daughter. Raised a couple of REAL nice females out of of 2T22 who is a full brother to Objective. They have extra depth and just real soggy. And out of cows that needed more of that. We have some yearling heifers out of Quakerhill Objective 3J15 that are pretty nice, and one out of Blue Moon. They get better with time...
I'm using a little Objective and Fast Track now based on those bulls' EPDs and high APIs, but haven't had many calves yet. I really like a bull at Accelerated Genetics called Connealy In Focus 4925. I haven't seen anything out of him yet. He looks plenty thick, and I like the bone he appears to have in his picture...seems a little stouter to me than some Angus bulls in terms of bone. Especially for easy calving bulls...
We're also looking at Connealy Thunder, a Genex bull. His API isn't quite as high, but his numbers are good. SydGen Mandate and SS Incentive are two Objective sons with good numbers. There are some other bulls I really like the looks of, but there are so many it gets a little overwhelming, so I try to narrow em down based on numbers. All of the bulls I've mentioned are registered with ASA as Foundation. I also like the SAV bulls...Potential, Iron Mountain, Bismarck...haven't used any of em. And I like Pure Product and Limestone Great Divide...really pretty bulls, but without the numbers we kinda like.
Probably didn't help you a bit, did I?...lol
savaged
Well-known member
Great info! What's the "name" on the 2T22 bull mentioned?
savaged said:
I think he's S S Traveler T510 2T22
Lance Ellsworth turned me on to him a few years ago when I was looking for a calving ease Angus bull to use on some heifers. The calves come real small, and you won't be impressed with them as babies! But they do grow...give the heifers until weaning or yearling stage and they don't look like the same cattle.
leanbeef said:
This is a 2T22 out of a purebred Simmie first-calf-heifer that is very average on depth. The calf was VERY plain as a baby...started looking like she was gonna be not bad by the time she was weaning age...this is about 11 months...starting to look like a cow. I have another one that followed the same maturity...also out of the same type of mama. And she's one of my favorite young cows we own now.
