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Offline GazCattle

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Breed Question
« on: January 09, 2020, 12:56:16 PM »
My son is going to build a herd for his FFA project. He wants to market calves as Show calves or replacement females. Weve mainly shown Maine Anjou influenced heifers up till now. It seems as the Angus, Maine, Simmental, and Herefords here in Oklahoma have the biggest numbers thus lots of competition. If you were starting out what breed would you choose.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Breed Question
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2020, 05:50:50 PM »
Shorthorns-There was a time when the best Shorthorns in the Country were in Oklahoma-going back to Lookabaughs 100 years ago Ten to 15 years ago they dominated everything-So if you have goodTHICK FUNCTIONAL CATTLE-and NOT: the overated hard doing hi BW me too cattle out there now-YOU WILL SELL CALVES As long as kids show-Shorthorns will be in demand By sheer Lack of numbers-Shorthorns are becoming the highest sale average by breed on alot of sales-No we arent talking CLICK cattle-we are talking club calves-that can work in the field later A good Shorthorn will top or be in the TOP THREE every sale It happens almost every sale I look at-Even though its one Shorthorn or x bred VS 35 other calves in the sale Be glad to help you find some-and so would my cattle buddy Will Lane-who basically is in Oklahoma-or my other cattle Buddy-Sharon Herje and others like the Taylors-Plumbtrees cattle-(Top of the line the herd all went to one breeder) Ronald Gooch in Texas, Big Bad Brad Davis in Iowa, Jim Compton in Iowa ETC
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 05:57:00 PM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline DLD

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Re: Breed Question
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2020, 08:48:34 PM »
If you want the ones you can’t sell as show calves to have any commercial value in Oklahoma, you’d better keep them solid red or black. Baldies with just a little white sell well - roans and paints do not. Herefords sell a little better, but still way behind the black ones. I like Herefords and Shorthorns, and I don’t believe the bias is justified, but it exists and you’ll see it every day at the sale barns. If you can sell enough show calves for enough premium, it might well be worth it - and as mark tenenbaum said, the potential is out there. But it’s a lot easier said than done.

That said we still have a few Herefords and Shorthorns, but we AI for show calves and clean them up with Angus or Red Angus bulls. But if I was starting today from scratch, I’d buy nothing but solid black or solid red ones - I truly believe that it’s almost certainly the more profitable option.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 08:50:38 PM by DLD »
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Online -XBAR-

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Re: Breed Question
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2020, 12:07:24 AM »
The roans are the easiest to sell.  I sell average roans for less than quality reds every year.   Ive sold or essentially given to family my red bulls and now use just roans.

Offline shortybreeder

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Re: Breed Question
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2020, 11:55:12 AM »
The roans are the easiest to sell.  I sell average roans for less than quality reds every year.   Ive sold or essentially given to family my red bulls and now use just roans.
Agreed. I use white bulls on my solid cows if I can find a good one.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Breed Question
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2020, 12:26:54 PM »
If you want the ones you cant sell as show calves to have any commercial value in Oklahoma, youd better keep them solid red or black. Baldies with just a little white sell well - roans and paints do not. Herefords sell a little better, but still way behind the black ones. I like Herefords and Shorthorns, and I dont believe the bias is justified, but it exists and youll see it every day at the sale barns. If you can sell enough show calves for enough premium, it might well be worth it - and as mark tenenbaum said, the potential is out there. But its a lot easier said than done.

That said we still have a few Herefords and Shorthorns, but we AI for show calves and clean them up with Angus or Red Angus bulls. But if I was starting today from scratch, Id buy nothing but solid black or solid red ones - I truly believe that its almost certainly the more profitable option.///// Like that everywhere as far as the salebarn-But not necessarily that way for showy ones-Which it appears is what they want to do-Even back here in the land of outdoor plumbing-a good Shorthorn calf will attract alot of buyers-Sheer lack of numbers-The skinny dairy rats-like any color dont bring anything The other possiblity if its feasible (pretty tough when embryos bring over $1000 each in some cases) is to buy embryos on the hi end Texas club calves-raise them out with good cheap WRONG COLOR COWS-and sell them. O0

Offline DLD

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Re: Breed Question
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2020, 08:28:34 PM »



If you want the ones you cant sell as show calves to have any commercial value in Oklahoma, youd better keep them solid red or black. Baldies with just a little white sell well - roans and paints do not. Herefords sell a little better, but still way behind the black ones. I like Herefords and Shorthorns, and I dont believe the bias is justified, but it exists and youll see it every day at the sale barns. If you can sell enough show calves for enough premium, it might well be worth it - and as mark tenenbaum said, the potential is out there. But its a lot easier said than done.

That said we still have a few Herefords and Shorthorns, but we AI for show calves and clean them up with Angus or Red Angus bulls. But if I was starting today from scratch, Id buy nothing but solid black or solid red ones - I truly believe that its almost certainly the more profitable option.

///// Like that everywhere as far as the salebarn-But not necessarily that way for showy ones-Which it appears is what they want to do-Even back here in the land of outdoor plumbing-a good Shorthorn calf will attract alot of buyers-Sheer lack of numbers-The skinny dairy rats-like any color dont bring anything The other possiblity if its feasible (pretty tough when embryos bring over $1000 each in some cases) is to buy embryos on the hi end Texas club calves-raise them out with good cheap WRONG COLOR COWS-and sell them. O0


Like I said - if you can sell enough of them for show calves it might be worth it. Not every colored up calf is going to be show quality, not even every embryo, even from a proven mating.

Im not knocking your breed or your passion for them. Like I said, we own some too. But the original poster asked for our opinions. You gave yours, I gave mine.
I know there's a balance
I see it when I swing past...
- John Mellencamp

Offline shortybreeder

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Re: Breed Question
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2020, 07:47:06 AM »
I've been breeding shorthorns since 2012, and the first 7 years were expensive with a lot of harsh lessons. That being said, I hit the "reset" button this past year and decided to stick with the breed because I believe there are some excellent genetics out there that will compete with any breed. To the point on colored calves bringing a discounted rate at the sales barn, I have noticed this as well. The way I get around it is by feeding out the calves that i dont sell as show/breeding stock. I direct-market as many as I can at a premium, and the rest dont take much/any hit once their finished. Then you can still enjoy all the perks of shorthorns, without the single biggest struggle breeders face.
And if you don't have good genetics, you'll quickly find out why those feeders get discounted so heavily.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Breed Question
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2020, 07:54:06 PM »
I agree with retaining ownership and feeding them out-How many small purebred herds live and die by the salebarn MORONS? If you have a great carcass thats hung 30 days or even 15-You eliminate them anyway-top quality graded beef doesnt really follow hide-like the "certified Angus HOLSTIENS" I see all over Iowa in feedlots O0

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Breed Question
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2020, 08:15:30 PM »



If you want the ones you cant sell as show calves to have any commercial value in Oklahoma, youd better keep them solid red or black. Baldies with just a little white sell well - roans and paints do not. Herefords sell a little better, but still way behind the black ones. I like Herefords and Shorthorns, and I dont believe the bias is justified, but it exists and youll see it every day at the sale barns. If you can sell enough show calves for enough premium, it might well be worth it - and as mark tenenbaum said, the potential is out there. But its a lot easier said than done.

That said we still have a few Herefords and Shorthorns, but we AI for show calves and clean them up with Angus or Red Angus bulls. But if I was starting today from scratch, Id buy nothing but solid black or solid red ones - I truly believe that its almost certainly the more profitable option.

///// Like that everywhere as far as the salebarn-But not necessarily that way for showy ones-Which it appears is what they want to do-Even back here in the land of outdoor plumbing-a good Shorthorn calf will attract alot of buyers-Sheer lack of numbers-The skinny dairy rats-like any color dont bring anything The other possiblity if its feasible (pretty tough when embryos bring over $1000 each in some cases) is to buy embryos on the hi end Texas club calves-raise them out with good cheap WRONG COLOR COWS-and sell them. O0


Like I said - if you can sell enough of them for show calves it might be worth it. Not every colored up calf is going to be show quality, not even every embryo, even from a proven mating.

Im not knocking your breed or your passion for them. Like I said, we own some too. But the original poster asked for our opinions. You gave yours, I gave mine.`//// Ive been involved with a good number of ETS-they were breed cattle-The clubby deal seems to yield a different type to say the least, And anyone doing it needs to address their market or Create one-just check out SC Sales I spend a ton of time following sales-Its like anything else-there is a tremendous demand for the right cattle-as usual-you cant just go to any source and buy a heifer in that echelon of things The embryo deal I mentioned isnt really directed at breed cattle perse and if these people are in Oklahoma-and have any inkling of marketing club calves-its a much easier location versus somewhere like Minnesota although good ones up there sell and go South too-We are talking about the Charolais Appearing, Hereford Appearing, Shorthorn Appearing etc cattle that people like Horn Glover, Mimms, Black, and a ton of others down South-and the Many known breeders in the midwest-North etc  sell  And in the event of a great one-some of these guys will help resell the calf These cattle can do 10-20000 or more on a good day and if you get 50% of that-it makes pretty good reading-if you raise 10 ETS of the right matings-You are going to probably have 2- 3 in that category-And maybe some good remaining ones to boot Takes money to play-but there are people doing very well at it A $3000 calf out of an 800 embryo also is pretty good if you sell a few privately-and have your own off colored whatever good cows to raise them and or show some ets then get the scamolians for thier progeny. ALOT OF THOSE SALES HAVE VERY HI END BRED HEIFERS THAT MAKE COWS with progeny-embryos in later sales-and you can raise full sibs-they arent just dysfunctional and terminal I am not stuck on my breed at all-I comment and learn about alot of different cattle on here.And admire the skills of the aforementioned breeders creating some pretty incredible animals from such a diverse gene base-Its called thinking outside the box, JMO-no purebred breeder who is involved with SHOW CATTLE-should live and die by the wims of the salebarn morons-as stated in the next thread If your cattle are any good at all by percentage of gross sales even if you just have 4-10 cows-and if a couple  dont get fed-in orfer to sell the end product and go to the barn instead-SO WHAT?O0
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 08:43:07 PM by mark tenenbaum »

 

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