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Offline beebe

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2020, 10:41:22 PM »
I just flushed a cow to him and got 5 embryos.  Minn Max leader is a half brother to him out of the same cow.  I flushed a Sparkle cow that I bought from JIT to Muridale Rawhide 6 e and got 29 embryos.  I think he ]is a 5.

Offline Doc

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2020, 04:47:35 AM »
Just curious as to why you want calves with that frame size.  I am trying to get to a 4 frame score.  We don't all have to be alike but what advantage do you think you get from that frame score?


I cant speaker for the original poster but we are kinda going that way too. Maybe not 7+ frame but definitely bigger and longer than acreage. The people who feed our cattle want to hang as many pounds on a carcass as they can and these 5 frames bull that dont have any length dont get it done. Now I dont want my cows to get to big but if we can keep our cow weight to weaning weight ratio in the mid 40 percent and they breed back in our environment we ll take it.

 I'm right there with you. I was looking for a bull this spring. While looking at JSF, Byland, PVF I just couldn't bring myself to bid on bulls that are 3 to 5 frame. Obviously they have people that did, but they just don't work for me. Once again that's why everyone produces and raises what works for them, their environment and their customers.

Where did you find frame 3 and 4 cattle?  I am not doubting you I would like to know where to find them.

Look at those 2 catalogs that I mentioned. They were in there.
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong
enough to take everything you have.   -- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Doc

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2020, 04:49:13 AM »
Marquis 127x and Tradition 106t have both left the frame in them for me. Patent 8161 has put some frame on a few weaned calves for me, but I didn't dare keep any of them to know just how big they were going to get. I assume Crooked Post Stockman would at least leave the frame in a cow if not add to most, but I have yet to try him.

There's several bulls on the show side that can do the same if that's your goal, but several of them have a few issues to work around.

Just curious why you said you wouldn't dare keep any of the 8161 calves??
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong
enough to take everything you have.   -- Thomas Jefferson

Offline redcows

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2020, 08:23:53 AM »
I don't see frame scores in the Jungles catalog

Offline aj

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2020, 02:01:18 PM »
I bought a 4.7 in Lovings sale. Lot 17. So far I am tickled with the purchase. Steerplanet grin.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline Medium Rare

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2020, 03:16:51 PM »
Just curious why you said you wouldn't dare keep any of the 8161 calves??

I don't measure my commercial calves, but they were at least two frame scores bigger than the purebred calves I did measure and lacked depth. Much more terminal in appearance muscling wise than what I want to see in potential replacement females. I would assume they went on to make good feedlot calves though.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2020, 03:41:29 PM »
Its one thing to want Terminal sires that have as much growth potential as your cows and environment can support

BUT

Actively seeking 6-8 frame bulls to sire replacement females is just madness as undoubtedly these cattle will require near year round out of pocket supplementation.   I don't want to put a single penny is my cows from early April until mid November so I just cant relate with actively taking a cowherd in a more costly-production direction.

A 6 frame cow that is built correctly is going to weigh 15-1600lbs.  Zero chance she ever weans half her body weight.

I don't care to look at 3 frames either but at the end of the day pretty is as pretty does and nothing pretty about a 6 frame 1100lb bag of bones.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2020, 09:40:57 PM »
A big bull on moderate cows will not necessarily raise the frame scores that much-maybe the weights been there done that including this year-where a 5 or less frame bull (Fresh Air) created what will be a 5-6 frame heifer from a 4.5 +- frame cow,Pics were taken just after she was   was weaned about 2 weeks ago and thrown in with yearling plus simms that are twice her age and big grow-1100 pounds etc-And the roan who will be a year in May-Shes 6.5 months here Had to contend with weaning and fighting them for feed-Well shes real wrung from these two week plus pictures-but she can walk over top of anything of her age and is standing her ground Her dam has huge grow genetics from somewhere-she has raised the biggest calf out of 30-or so from the first calf every year  till now-We are talking mainline Angus-and Simms-and maine Xs all of which are much larger than her O0
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 12:57:22 PM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline Doc

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2020, 04:41:07 AM »
I don't see frame scores in the Jungles catalog
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong
enough to take everything you have.   -- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Building Better Beef

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2020, 12:06:14 PM »
A bull we have raised and used extensively is a purebred Shorthorn bull, Bell M Foreman 30A. His calves have excellent depth and are very functional. In all the years of using him on shorthorn and Shorty/Simm cross we have never had a spotty calf. 85% of his calves are dark roans. Our Foreman calves are all around frame 6 to 6.5. We have had other herds use him on smaller frame females and have beautiful 6 frame calves. Foreman calves have a long growth period, there is no growth spurts, they keep getting better with age. Daughters we have in production have well uniformed and neat udders with lots of milk. Sons are breeding well in purebred and commercial herds. Semen is available in Canada, USA and Australia. Bell M Captain 139D is a son we are using.

Canadian Shorthorn Association Digital Beef: https://csa.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=M477242
Here is a link to him as a coming two year old: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5rU1N6-QtU
On Pasture after the peak of his breeding season: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=508006289542901

Offline Building Better Beef

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2020, 01:12:09 PM »
Here are a couple of Foreman females. The roan cow calved about 2.5 weeks ago. The white cow was pictured at 2019 Brandon Ag Ex where she was Champion Female. Showchampions seem to have troubles taking pictures of her (lol)

Offline Mtnman

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2020, 04:59:44 PM »
All of these cows are frame 6 and 6+, weigh from 1450 to 1650, all wean calves near 50% or more their body weight and require no extra inputs above what is considered normal for my area and environment. This is a small cross section of my cow herd, do I have smaller cows? Yes I do, I also have bigger cow's.  Why would anyone want to have 1960's and 1970's belt buckle calves? Very little performance, but then you get what you expect. Each to their own,  I'm not going to belittle your cattle if that's what you like.



Offline idalee

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2020, 05:33:43 PM »
GOOD Cows!  Mtnman

Offline Mtnman

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2020, 07:22:52 PM »

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Bulls siring larger frames
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2020, 01:31:41 PM »
 "Above what is considered normal for my area and environment"

Nothing revealing here. Everyone knows that if youre willing to supplement half the year, you can have any size cow you want. 




 

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