I have an associate that was wanting to know what course of action takes place if a small "family farm" file Bankruptcy under Ch. 11 instead of Ch. 12. I guess attorney retainers for Ch. 12 Bankruptcy are substantial in size. Can one file Ch. 11 and later petition to have the venue changed to the Ch. 12 court?
business N/C - Ch. 11 or Ch. 12 bankruptcy?
- Thread starter sasquatch
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cowman 52
Well-known member
chap 12 will give a lot more leeway as to reorganization options- chap 11 does not allow the variables in the business as chap 12 does
AAOK
Well-known member
I wish I hadn't seen this post, because I now have to share my thoughts.
From Wikipedia - Bankruptcy or insolvency is a legal status of a person or an organization that cannot repay the debts it owes to its creditors. Creditors may file a bankruptcy petition against a business or corporate debtor ("involuntary bankruptcy") in an effort to recoup a portion of what they are owed or initiate a restructuring.
Bankruptcy is nothing more than a legal means to steal! If the general public, business, and our State and Federal government would borrow only what they can repay in the set limits, our nation would return to the Republic it once was.
Sasquatch, tell your associate to suck it up, and pay their bills. Why should you and I pay for the indiscretions of another? There is NO excuse for Bankruptcy. Bad things happen to Good people every day. The best of those "deal with it"!
CAB
Well-known member
AAOK said:
AAOK, I agree somewhat with what you are saying, but things do happen that are no fault of PPL, it just happens. I myself possibly should have considered bankruptcy. In 1998 when the hog market went to $.08/lb lost a very substantial amount of money in a very short period of time to what I would call predatory marketing and nothing that PPL could do. Two kids in college @ the time, one in HS. My family was absolutely turnt upside down and we are still trying to find a strong foothold. Here's the question for you to answer, just what do you purpose we do with PPL that bad things happen to them, hang'em all or just put them all in jail? That won't let them help themselves in anyway either. Most PPL that have your view about the bankruptcy laws have been very fortunate in life and have very little compassion for those that are less fortunate it seems. Just somethings to think about.
flacowman
Well-known member
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CAB we were in the same position with hogs, we managed to make it then they passed the anti confinement law here in florida and we finally had to go out after making it through some really hard times. We have never seriously considered bankruptcy but probably shouls have as well
myerscattle
Active member
AAOK said:
this sounds like someone that inherited the family farm and never really had to make it on their own..not saying that is what you did but think about your ignorance to their personal situation based on yours.....in the real world, people do file bankrupcy for the right reasons that are out of their control. our govt is completely broke and has stolen from each and every one of us..i may still be in school but even i know this.....complain about that....if you do not believe me, check the value of the dollars you are holding over the past 80 years....going going gone....
I don’t mind my hard earned tax dollars going to help the hard working that have lost their shirt, my problem is the generations of welfare rats! pop out a baby your set for life, money health care, housing, your set. Around here there are literally family that generation after generation have been on welfare . God forbid you decide to go to collage, you lose your insurance because your to old (granted this did change due to health reform) put yourself in dept, scrape to get threw...honestly, we should start 'fixing' people who aren’t suitable to breed. tell me why we can send millions over seas, yet forget about the damage of Katrina, let our elders go hungry, our veterans go cold, and our children homeless,?? But then again, here we are, calling a spade, when farms are being destroyed at an alarming rate, yet we fight over trivial things like breeds being no good, clubby’s being junk. The days of Americans standing together has faded, how our forefathers must turn over in their graves. This is what they mean by stupid in America, when we aren’t even willing to help our Nabors in their darkest hour. Disgusting.
Doc
Well-known member
AAOK said:
AAOK, I don't think it is as black & white as you are making it. I agree that a lot of people & businesses use bankruptcy way to easily sometimes.I have been affected by someone filing on my work. But I also think there is a time and place for it. I just have gone through 1 1/2 years of cancer surgery & treatments. I just finished up 6 weeks of daily radiation at a cost of $97,000.00 . I did a biopsy in Jan. of this year at a cost of $22,000.00 & in Dec. of 2010 they removed 8 clusters of lymph nodes at a cost of $83,000.00 . Thats a total cost of $202,000.00 & thats not counting some Dr bills & prescription drugs. Now , LUCKILY I am one of those that have insurance. It's a HSA with a deductible of $6,000.00 a year for myself & family. After that it pays 100%. I mean that is hefty enough paying my monthly premiums & my deductible, especially when my business is tied to the auto industry & has been in the toilet the past 2 years. But I can assure you that if I hadn't had insurance & couldn't work out a payment plan of some sort with the hospitals. Then I would have filed some kind of bankruptcy before I would have let my house get repossesed & my family not have a place to live.
mark tenenbaum
Well-known member
CAB-thats pretty easy to say untill youve lost everything-home.assets,livelihood,if you were in that posistion-where you literally didnt have money for food-I think your tune would change.Sometimes these things happen and snowball out of peoples control-If someone is broke-unemployed-and over 60-how do you expect them to pay back what could be millions of dallars. Certainly not with smug political cliches about "our country"-etc etc-This countries debt-didnt appear in 2 years O0
CAB
Well-known member
mark tenenbaum said:
Mark, I think you have me,(CAB), mixed up with someone else. Please reread the thread. CAB.
mark tenenbaum
Well-known member
My mistake CAB-It was meant for AAOK . Your post made sense-along the lines of whats happened to alot of people. O0
AAOK
Well-known member
CAB - In my reply I may have used too big of a blanket, covering all who have or ever will file for Bankruptcy. There may be a need to have this course of action(bankruptcy), but personally, I've only witnessed abuse of the system. It is fact that most who file have a huge net worth, but manage to hide there assets. I also realize there are many exceptions here, and from all economic groups.
Myerscattle - No easy street for me. I had a retail business for 21 years. We offered easy credit back in the days before the popularity of Bank Cards. I didn't have a s great lot of Cedti Customers list me on their Notices of Bankruptcy, but when I did, it was usually what I called a high roller (one who boasted of everything they had, and always getting bigger). Therein lies the reason for my bias. My business really accelerated through the "Oil Boom" of the early 80s, and suffered greatly in the "Bust" later. At the end of 1986 my inventory totaled more than sales. Four of the next five years produced a net loss. I could have taken the easy way out, but elected to hang on the both the business, and all of my employees. Afterall, God's word says "At the end of every seven years you shall grant a release of debts. And this is the form of the release: Every creditor who has lent anything to his neighbor shall release it; he shall not require it of his neighbor or his brother, because it is called the LORD's release" (Deuteronomy 15:1-2). How many know this is where we got Chapter 7?
By 1990, we were back in the Black. Four years later I closed the doors, by choice, and was able to pay off all my outstanding debts, and even had enough to cover living expenses for a few months.
My HS Senior daughter was devestated when I was suddenly unemployed. How was she going to go to College? The 9th grader informed me she wouldn't need any help. Within a week, I had a job with Moorman's Feed. That lasted about a year, and now I'm well seasoned in my Fifth Career.
Through wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established; and by knowledge the rooms shall be filled with all precious and pleasant riches. Proverbs 24: 3
DOC - I think it IS pretty Black & White
mark tenenbaum
Well-known member
Diamond said:
