Buttercup Cell Line??

justintime · Jun 27, 2014

I must be getting too old as there is something about selling cell lines on any animal just seems to me to be stepping over some lines. I guess there will always be people willing to invest sizable amounts of money in dreams and there is probably a good argument that people should be free to spend their money on anything they want to. Maybe it is just that I have not seen many clones produce as good as the original animal did. I know they are supposed to be genetically identical, but I have not heard of many clones doing what was expected of them. I am sure there are some that are.
Here is Canada, it is against the law to even consume milk or beef from a cloned animal. A cloned animal cannot be registered nor can any animal that has a cloned animal in its pedigree. This law is for any breed. It seems to me that this is far beyond logical, but it sure sounds like this law will not be changed for many more years to come. I have no idea why our government is so firm on this ruling, but they appear to be firm in their decision and have the backing of some very good geneticists. I have heard of some clones of Million dollar plus Holstein cows that must have their milk poured out and the owners stand to be charged with serious criminal offenses if they are ever found to have put milk from a cloned animal into the food supply. Why would two countries who basically have similar opinions on most food safety issues have such opposing rules?
Getting back to selling cell lines, right now, I guess I question the logic to spending good money on buying them. I would rather spend it on a son or daughter of a great female or refinance the farm to buy a set of embryos from her, before I would buy a cell line from her.... but that is just me. I am sure there are lots of people who would jump at this opportunity and I guess that is what makes the world go around.

RyanChandler · Jun 27, 2014

justintime said:
Maybe it is just that I have not seen many clones produce as good as the original animal did.

Evidence of how large of a role epigenetics / methylation play in gene expression.

knabe · Jun 27, 2014

-XBAR- said:
justintime said:

Maybe it is just that I have not seen many clones produce as good as the original animal did.

Click to expand...

Evidence of how large of a role epigenetics / methylation play in gene expression.

no it's not. it's anecdotal. you will get people saying there is no difference in the heatwave clones.

both comments are just opinion. yes, there are obviously clones that haver problems and defects themselves, but when a good producing clone comes along, a systematic study has not been performed yet.

no one has produced a set of calves from the original, a clone, all from the same donor, lined them up and have people judge them, weigh them etc in a true double blind study.

one can not assign the role of anything without a controlled experiment, subsequent measurement and analysis. even, then, the experimental design may have flaws or some variability is not being controlled for that is greater than the effect of the treatments.

Dale · Jun 27, 2014

In the past Europe was not logical about GMO, biotech, cloning, etc. If the company was European, its GMO seed was fine and not hazardous. If it was of U.S. origin, then it was unsafe and might cause catastrophy if consumed by people or animals. Keep in mind that your GMO tomato on your sandwich has been tested extensively, while your garden heirloom variety has NOT been tested (and could be less safe). Since Canada likely still has strong ties with the Mother country, where royal family members make landmark speeches about the grave danger of biotechnology, those with power and influence in your politics probably follow a drummer across the pond.

Biotech can have its drawbacks. Cloning surely makes the gene pool smaller, and clones can be carriers of genetic defects (both known and unknown). Rumor has it that cows do not do as well on silage from genetically engineered corn--something that insects will not eat perhaps does not appeal to bovines either? You need to ask an expert, but probably bacterial/microbial biotech is one of the most promising opportunities for finding cures to rare diseases? There is plenty of junk science going around and sorting out the truth is challenging.

RyanChandler · Jun 27, 2014

knabe said:
-XBAR- said:

justintime said:

Maybe it is just that I have not seen many clones produce as good as the original animal did.

Click to expand...

Evidence of how large of a role epigenetics / methylation play in gene expression.

Click to expand...

no it's not. it's anecdotal. you will get people saying there is no difference in the heatwave clones.

both comments are just opinion. yes, there are obviously clones that haver problems and defects themselves, but when a good producing clone comes along, a systematic study has not been performed yet.

no one has produced a set of calves from the original, a clone, all from the same donor, lined them up and have people judge them, weigh them etc in a true double blind study.

one can not assign the role of anything without a controlled experiment, subsequent measurement and analysis. even, then, the experimental design may have flaws or some variability is not being controlled for that is greater than the effect of the treatments.

There are significant ways in which our concepts and knowledge are gained independently of sense experience.

knabe · Jun 27, 2014

-XBAR- said:
There are significant ways in which our concepts and knowledge are gained independently of sense experience.

please list them.

you might start with ego.

RyanChandler · Jun 27, 2014

knabe said:
-XBAR- said:

There are significant ways in which our concepts and knowledge are gained independently of sense experience.

Click to expand...

please list them.

you might start with ego.

Those pesky, egotistical rationalist are always cramping your style, aren't they? (lol)

knabe · Jun 27, 2014

-XBAR- said:
Those pesky, egotistical rationalist are always cramping your style, aren't they? (lol)

no. they are just cramping their own style. they are usually nude.

GONEWEST · Jun 27, 2014

-XBAR- said:
There are significant ways in which our concepts and knowledge are gained independently of sense experience.

If you have gained any knowledge about ANYTHING, it was obviously gained independently of sense or experience.

RyanChandler · Jun 27, 2014

GONEWEST said:
-XBAR- said:

There are significant ways in which our concepts and knowledge are gained independently of sense experience.

Click to expand...

If you have gained any knowledge about ANYTHING, it was obviously gained independently of sense or experience.

Maybe one day I can work my way up to middle management like you, and who knows, maybe even gain a little sense and experience on the way. In the meantime, I'll just go back to building a 40 million dollar project during the week and playing w/ my 70 brood cows on the weekends.

GONEWEST · Jun 27, 2014

-XBAR- said:
GONEWEST said:

-XBAR- said:

There are significant ways in which our concepts and knowledge are gained independently of sense experience.

Click to expand...

If you have gained any knowledge about ANYTHING, it was obviously gained independently of sense or experience.

Click to expand...

Maybe one day I can work my way up to middle management like you, and who knows, maybe even gain a little sense and experience on the way. In the meantime, I'll just go back to building a 40 million dollar project during the week and playing w/ my 70 brood cows on the weekends.

You'll never work your way up to anything higher than Chief Dopehead.

RyanChandler · Jun 27, 2014

Gonewest here is either delusional or suffers from what's known as cognitive dissonance. See, some people, even when presented with evidence that works against their claims, still cannot accept the facts.

twc77 · Jun 28, 2014

GONEWEST said:
-XBAR- said:

GONEWEST said:

-XBAR- said:

There are significant ways in which our concepts and knowledge are gained independently of sense experience.

Click to expand...

If you have gained any knowledge about ANYTHING, it was obviously gained independently of sense or experience.

Click to expand...

Maybe one day I can work my way up to middle management like you, and who knows, maybe even gain a little sense and experience on the way. In the meantime, I'll just go back to building a 40 million dollar project during the week and playing w/ my 70 brood cows on the weekends.

Click to expand...

You'll never work your way up to anything higher than Chief Dopehead.

Impressive, head east or gone west. Its probably been at least six months since you resorted to calling xbar a dopehead.. the restraint you have shown is impressive.I missed the posts where he sought you out to desparage your character.wait, one would probably need to have that before they are affected.. at least this time it wasn't over politics.

knabe · Jun 28, 2014

-XBAR- said:
even when presented with evidence that works against their claims, still cannot accept the facts.

what evidence.

GONEWEST · Jun 28, 2014

twc77 said:
GONEWEST said:

-XBAR- said:

GONEWEST said:

-XBAR- said:

There are significant ways in which our concepts and knowledge are gained independently of sense experience.

Click to expand...

If you have gained any knowledge about ANYTHING, it was obviously gained independently of sense or experience.

Click to expand...

Maybe one day I can work my way up to middle management like you, and who knows, maybe even gain a little sense and experience on the way. In the meantime, I'll just go back to building a 40 million dollar project during the week and playing w/ my 70 brood cows on the weekends.

Click to expand...

You'll never work your way up to anything higher than Chief Dopehead.

Impressive, head east or gone west. Its probably been at least six months since you resorted to calling xbar a dopehead.. the restraint you have shown is impressive.I missed the posts where he sought you out to desparage your character.wait, one would probably need to have that before they are affected.. at least this time it wasn't over politics.

Click to expand...

It's ok that you've missed it. Probably couldn't see through the purple haze. You've probably missed all the disparaging remarks he's made to children as well. And I certainly didn't mean to attack his character. I mean how can you attack something that doesn't exist? He is a dope head. Ask him. He gets off treating children poorly on an internet chat board and should have been banned long ago because of it.

It'll probably be 6months again before I am back to see if he is still here and I am sure he will be. I've been told he causes enough controversy that he is too valuable to kick off. So me and 10 or 12 others have quit even logging in because his crapola gets old and tiring. So its not that I have been restrained its just that we are all sick of his crap and don't come here anymore.

RyanChandler · Jun 28, 2014

Treating children poorly?? Lol you can't name one instance. Not even one. I walk the walk- and because of your own personal shortcomings- it eats you up inside.

knabe · Jun 29, 2014

-XBAR- said:
Treating children poorly?? Lol you can't name one instance. Not even one.

you are naked. your posts have been much less abusive towards children lately, even complimentary.

keep up the good work.

Buttercup Cell Line??

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