CABANA -PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THESE CATTLE ARE-SHORTHORNS HERE NEED THESE GENETICS

I have a few canes of Lincoln Red semen in one of my tanks yet- from back in the 70s. I was not impressed with the udders on most of the Lincoln Red females from that era, and I thought most of the Lincoln Red cows I saw in the UK 5 years ago were much the same- especially the females with any age. Their teats were thick and coarse made and udders tended to lose suspension at a fairly young age. Does anyone know what the udders of the Argentine Shorthorns are like, with the Lincoln influence?

There are plenty of big hardoing hard calving show cattle that have a hard time working in the pasture and do not milk very well at all. Cattle like those down South that make it in pretty rough conditions would be a good mix PERFECT or not. Here's a typical non show Daybreak daughter-I dont see alot wrong with her as a commercially oriented female-shes upwards of 1/4 lincoln Red-which is probably as high or higher a percentage than the ones down south O0 O0

What percentage "Shorthorn" are Lincoln Reds?  I know the Maines (full bloods) originally came in as 3/4 Shorthorn, but most information I read at the time claimed a higher actual percentage.  What does the Lincoln Red Association say about their heritage?

GB Daybreak Express was sired by Byland Dazzler and his dam a purebred was sired by GB Spiffy-whos sire was Claydene Everready *xAR3347 considered 87% Shorthorn  (listed as 75% Lincoln Red 25% Shorthorn?) and his daughter  GB Spiffy is listed as 100% Shorthorn-so at that time lincoln Reds were somewhere around 80%=red shorthorns I guess. I dont know if there is enough distinction between them to be considered a seperate breed in blood or seperate herdbook like the milkers. In any case if you breed one to a shorthorn it appears to be a little more than 7  8ths O0

oakview said:

What percentage "Shorthorn" are Lincoln Reds?  I know the Maines (full bloods) originally came in as 3/4 Shorthorn, but most information I read at the time claimed a higher actual percentage.  What does the Lincoln Red Association say about their heritage?

Click to expand...

Well, I think that we have a problem here.
The questions is....how much is the percentage accepted by associations and how much is the real percentage on breed formation?
LR and MA have not a SHO % definition on breed formation as have Santa Gertrudis or Bonsmaras.
So, the Association put the % definition as it believe to be. So for MA this is 50% and LR 100% is USA. In Brazil both, MA and LR, were assumed 100% and used for maybe 10 years, after this was banned, but progeny kept on herd book. For ARG and URU same case, but they never used MA, only LR. Many LR bulls were imported at live to Brazil, ARG and URU, and after some semen was imported to Brazil. I own semen of 9 bulls from this time.
To me, on my personal view, both LR and MA are not SHO, they are a singular and proper breed with SHO ancestors as Bonsmaras, Belgian Blue, Normande and more 50 breeds aound the world.
Assuming that LR and MA are SHO....well I need to also assume that all other are also!

justintime said:

I have a few canes of Lincoln Red semen in one of my tanks yet- from back in the 70s. I was not impressed with the udders on most of the Lincoln Red females from that era, and I thought most of the Lincoln Red cows I saw in the UK 5 years ago were much the same- especially the females with any age. Their teats were thick and coarse made and udders tended to lose suspension at a fairly young age. Does anyone know what the udders of the Argentine Shorthorns are like, with the Lincoln influence?

Click to expand...

LR problems here with old genetics.....udders attachment, teats size (too big in same cases), hardy to shed.
Positive points on 70's that let to use the LR....poll character, outcross with a heterosis bit and red color (for ARG in special).
LR make a good job here, but I think that with some good research on SHO availab at that time, we could get same without use a strange breed.....but British breeders were very strong on their markeeting on that time - good for they!

From the US herdbook-the LRS start with a slightly higher percentage than full blood maines based upon Daybreak Expresses pedigree unless my math is wrong. They look like oldscholl 50s to 70s polled Shorthorns I saw when I was very young.Except this recent English champion bull-hes as big as anything out there short of a Charolais  This cow exhibits one important LR trait (NON SHOW ONLY THEYD POO POO HER IN THE RING) and thats a very large birth path,which is evidenced (at least to us West Va stumpjumpers) by the roll in her pins to hooks and the curvature and or slight promenance of her backbone towards the rear. Her head looks more like a polled Shorthorn than alot of the "Shorthorns" I see LOL O0 O0

From what I gather on the LR and other cattle breed historical websites, the LRs were formed by crossing Durhams (Shorthorns) on the native cattle.  I see no reference as to how many crosses of Durhams were used, whether the "accepted" LR cattle were 99% or 1% Durham.  I also found that the LRs had strains used for milking and beef, just like the old Shorthorns.  They were originally called Lincoln Red Shorthorns, but the Shorthorn was dropped after some time and they are now known simply as Lincoln Reds.  If I used Claydene Ever Ready today on a cow considered to be purebred Shorthorn, would the calf be considered purebred Shorthorn?  Does the Lincoln Red Association accept Shorthorn breeding into their herdbook?

oakview said:

From what I gather on the LR and other cattle breed historical websites, the LRs were formed by crossing Durhams (Shorthorns) on the native cattle.  I see no reference as to how many crosses of Durhams were used, whether the "accepted" LR cattle were 99% or 1% Durham.  I also found that the LRs had strains used for milking and beef, just like the old Shorthorns.  They were originally called Lincoln Red Shorthorns, but the Shorthorn was dropped after some time and they are now known simply as Lincoln Reds.  If I used Claydene Ever Ready today on a cow considered to be purebred Shorthorn, would the calf be considered purebred Shorthorn?  Does the Lincoln Red Association accept Shorthorn breeding into their herdbook?

Click to expand...

Exact...as none mention to how much Shorthorn is on the LR - 1 or 99% - same was on the Maines. So...

https://shorthorn.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&search_value=&animal_registration=AR3347&    Everready is listed as AR SHORTHORN  87.5% then listed as 25% Shorthorn 75% Lincoln Red The only real answer would be to ask the association-Hes at least 75% maybe an 8th more-because GB Spiffy his son out of a purebred Shorthorn cow  is 100% he sired GB Miss Spiffy the purebred 100% cow who was Daybreak Expresses dam. Daybreaks other grandsire Deertrail Awesome was 100% (and I'm the archbishop of Caturbury) O0

oakview said:

From what I gather on the LR and other cattle breed historical websites, the LRs were formed by crossing Durhams (Shorthorns) on the native cattle.  I see no reference as to how many crosses of Durhams were used, whether the "accepted" LR cattle were 99% or 1% Durham.  I also found that the LRs had strains used for milking and beef, just like the old Shorthorns.  They were originally called Lincoln Red Shorthorns, but the Shorthorn was dropped after some time and they are now known simply as Lincoln Reds.  If I used Claydene Ever Ready today on a cow considered to be purebred Shorthorn, would the calf be considered purebred Shorthorn?  Does the Lincoln Red Association accept Shorthorn breeding into their herdbook?

Click to expand...

In South Africa they are still a part of the Shorthorn Society and unless they are appendix cattle, the British L R Society is very good with marking "tainted" genetics, they are accepted without prejudice into the herdbook.
Unfortunately a lot of UK LR's seem to be appendix.
Currently there only seems to be one breeder having used LR genetics in the recent past, as far as I am aware.
Seen some good "pure" cattle pictures in the UK in the last year or two! Interesting bull in N. America too, was it Pendelty herd, I no longer subscribe to Shorthorn Country so not 100% sure.

Do the bull and cow above look like LRS? He looks like one to me O0

LR's in UK today show two lines.
An "improved" line, siganed as a X in front of register number. This one was improved with Limousin, Charolais, Romagnola to put more size, meat and continental shape on carcass.
The other one, is called "original" population. It is without other breed as LR. But, this originals were polled with Aberdeen Angus on 60's.
Yes, some LR in NA, in special in Canada....not many.