Calving Ease: Is it all "bull"?

Jill said:

TJ All I'm saying is that you are comparing apples to oranges.  The OP was talking about standard sized "calving ease" bulls.  What you are talking about is something completely different, whether your talking Mimi Hereford, Mimi Shorthorn or Lowline Angus they have their place in the industry the same as show cattle, but they are not going to throw the same standard sized calf that is just a fact of life, you will get a smaller calf, but you can't honestly tell me you're not giving up size in return on the other end.
While I do like Maines, I would like to see the posts your talking about, I own Maine, Shorthorn, Angus and Simmentals,  Maines aren't even actually the majority of my cattle, and I really don't recall very often posting about them, I don't disagree with your right to post the other side of the story, just don't see how so many topics seem to somehow lead to Lowline cattle.

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Jill, I posted relevant information about this topic & I did it using facts, not opinion.  This post was about "Calving ease, is it all bull?".  I stayed on topic.  Others drifted a little & I responded, but I simply responded to posts.  If I wasn't on topic or responding to posts, it would be totally different.  You think it's apples & oranges... nothing wrong with that... we disagree.  It's not a big deal. 

RE Mini's verses Lowline cattle... I can tell you honestly, that there is as much size difference between the average Mini Herf bull & Doc Holliday, as there is between Doc Holliday & Ali.  Doc Holliday actually sired a calf that was the same frame size & was heavier than a heifer out of Xray Vision's full brother & a Wild Side female.  Don't believe me, look at the 2 pics on page 1.  Also, the NDSU-Dickinson 3 year test results show that 100+ 1/2 Lowline steers averaged over 1,200 lbs. at finishing.  If a 1,200+ lb. steer isn't standard, I don't know what is.  Yes, you will not have frame 7 calves, but you will likely have just as much weight or close.  As long as 48, 49, 50, 51 & 52 inch steers are winning shows, the 1/2 Lowline calves will be "standard sized".  Maybe those types of calves don't win in Kansas, but posters on this board talk about that height steers winning in IL & OH.  I can show pictures, data, testimonials, etc.  We will just have to agree to disagree.   

RE Maines... If I'm wrong, I'm wrong & if I am wrong, I'm sorry.  But the truth is, I too have fewer fullblood Lowlines than anything else. 

So many topics are not leading to Lowline cattle & neither are so many of my own posts regardless of what it may seem like.  In the frame score thread, I was talking frame 4.5 cattle... not necessarily Lowlines (full Lowlines are smaller)... frame 4's can be Shorthorn's sired by Perfect Timing like the one on page 1 of this thread... she's the type that I was talking about.     FWIW, I haven't touched the "Dirty Hairy for heifers" thread.  Nor have I touched "Blaze Simmi's for calving ease".  I don't touch a lot of threads like those whether you think so or not.   Yes, several calving ease topics have led to Lowline cattle being mentioned, but why shouldn't they?  Those posts are about calving ease... it's a natural progression.  It's like posting that Chi's will excel when you are talking about maximum feed lot gain.  Fullblood Chi's are extremes... bigtime!  I remember all kinds of people who didn't like the Chi's either, but they certainly left their mark on the industry, I think the Lowline Angus can do the same thing.  It may be with low percentage Lowlines, just like it is now with low percentage Chi's, but I've always said that.  Besides, here recently several "somebody else's" have mentioned Lowline cattle 1st in a thread & part of the time it isn't even a Lowline breeder doing it!  But, when I think it's relevant or if I've got something legit to bring to the table, I do post 1st.  Kinda like RSC last year asking for opinions RE flushing his Angus donor.  I mentioned a Lowline bull & somebody blew a gasket.  Little did they know that Tony had already PM'ed me & asked about flushing her to Doc Holliday for a friend of his.  And you know what, they DID flush that Angus donor to Doc Holliday!  So, somebody obviously agreed with me & they live out in Nebraska.      And that is my point... Lowline cattle may not be for you or Gidget or farwest or JShroeder, etc. and that's fine with me... nothing wrong with that... recommend something else.... Juli can even recommend Gigolo Joe!  But, some people, including several on this board, either have/are going to/or are considering, using a Lowline Angus bull... probably more than you think.  Just because it isn't relevant to you, doesn't mean that it is irrelevant to everyone on this board.  Even a Steerplanet moderator has Doc Holliday on their bulls that they will use this year list, posted on this board.  So again, Lowline Angus may be irrelevant to you, but not to everyone, not even everyone on this board!  Trust me, if I didn't think that something was relevant, I would waste my time posting it. 

TJ

I'm starting to think the lowline breed may be an acorn, socialist plot, of some kind that can be traced all the way back to Hubert Humphrey.jmo ;D

OK...its page three of this already lol.  I never said I didn't like them, I just didn't think they'd be profitable in our neck of the woods TJ.  Heck its page three, I quit on page one and I'm still getting drug thru the mud.  I wasn't the only one on this topic that shared my point of view.  I actually said that all breeds of cattle have there place in the cattle industry.

Seems like your wasting more time beating a dead horse than its worth.  If you'll leave it be I'll actually say "I'm sorry I got your panties in a bundle TJ"

You got to admit it is beating a drum an awful long time when 6 posts in a row are one persons. Each one of those being an essay.  A person doesn't have to always have the last word.  Just my honest opinion

justme said:

OK...its page three of this already lol.  I never said I didn't like them, I just didn't think they'd be profitable in our neck of the woods TJ.  Heck its page three, I quit on page one and I'm still getting drug thru the mud.  I wasn't the only one on this topic that shared my point of view.  I actually said that all breeds of cattle have there place in the cattle industry.

Seems like your wasting more time beating a dead horse than its worth.  If you'll leave it be I'll actually say "I'm sorry I got your panties in a bundle TJ"

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I wasn't meaning to drag you thru the mud & I honestly did not think that I was.  I was just saying that I already knew/know that you wont use them & that's OK.  No big deal. 

And you are correct, you weren't the only one & that is why we are on page 3.  I can pretty much guarantee that others are biting their tongues on both sides, otherwise we might be on page 22.    Thankfully, we aren't, but we will be on page 4 after my next reply.

I'm not beating a dead horse any more than anybody who has replied to me.  Actually though, farwest asked a pretty good question that hadn't been asked before.   

I'm not bothered... I'm really not... it seems that others might be bothered though.  I hope not, this is only a message board for discussion & learning.  I'm just replying & I hope that's all they are doing too.  Actually farwest has got me thinking & I will be looking into his question.  Because of that question, I will learn something from this thread, one way or the other, & that's what it's all about, IMHO. 

Gidet, I wish you nothing except the very best & I'm willing to drop this like a hot potato as soon as I reply to farwest & hopefully, I wont have to post again in this thread RE anything Lowline related.  No big deal to me, several of us just happen to disagree & that is OK.     

farwest said:

You got to admit it is beating a drum an awful long time when 6 posts in a row are one persons. Each one of those being an essay.  A person doesn't have to always have the last word.  Just my honest opinion

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Not that it matters, but all 6 were replies.  At least 4 of those 6 posts that I responded to, were posts aimed directly at my post/s.  I was simply replying. 

My honest opinion is that you are trying to stir the pot again, but that's not my worry.  I wish you nothing except the best.       

I hate it when people try and get in the last word.

im asking does climate influences the calf size  northern bigger      souther warmer  smaller calves

aj said:

I hate it when people try and get in the last word.

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Then why did you just try to do it?    ???

elmcreek said:

im asking does climate influences the calf size  northern bigger       souther warmer  smaller calves

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Absolutely it does... not only birth weight, but mature size too.  Look at the animals in the wild for proof.  North & west = bigger.  South & east = smaller. 

aj said:

I hate it when people try and get in the last word.

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word!  (lol)

. ;D

there must be some experiments on this stuff rather than having to rely on anecdotal evidence alone.

also, understanding that even experiments can't control for everything.

word.

i'm thinking aj and tj are out of the same cow.  which one had a higher birth weight?  we could isolate this pretty quickly.

Your mamma like Rush Limbaugh.So there. :-*

(lol)

so, is the only utility of a calving ease bull to be for heifers?

if a calving ease bull is the statistical opposite of a calving hard bull, it seems to me to be stupid to focus a herd on calving outliers as you will corner yourself.

I aggree.

Does the phrase "Breed to the middle of the road" ring a bell with anyone??