Changes in your breed......say the last 10-15 years

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Simmgal

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In the Simmi breed I've noticed a big increase in WW and YW numbers, especially in my herd. From the olden days, BW has decreased and CE has increased. Still have some who think that Simmental can't be used on anything small because they are still considered to have a high BW and low CE. If we are going WAY back, most of our Simmentals are black now, used to have more reds. Been seeing more with low MM numbers as of late.

Lots of improvements over the years..
 

aj

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The Shorthorn sale in Denver sells few live animals......all frozen embryos. DNA identification of lethal genetic defects........industry wide. I think that the identification of genetic defects were hastened by social media discussion. The Milkers were used followed up by the Maine Anjou........black color is now accepted in the Shorthorn breed.
 

knabe

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aj said:
The Shorthorn sale in Denver sells few live animals......all frozen embryos. DNA identification of lethal genetic defects........industry wide. I think that the identification of genetic defects were hastened by social media discussion. The Milkers were used followed up by the Maine Anjou........black color is now accepted in the Shorthorn breed.


I think you may have had a couple for sale at the Denver show. Why did you stop.


Has a black won a heifer or a bull class yet?
 

Duncraggan

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woodyc said:
in the UK the beef shorthorns have a few with double muscling coming into the breed
According to vol. 13 2017 Beef Shorthorn Journal from the U.K., pg. 13, double muscling is undesirable in both males and females!
It lies to the Society to enforce the rules, genetic testing?
I wonder if their, U.K., scrapping of genetic/purebred percentages won't be their downfall? I think breeders worldwide want to know that!
 

woodyc

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Duncraggan said:
woodyc said:
in the UK the beef shorthorns have a few with double muscling coming into the breed
According to vol. 13 2017 Beef Shorthorn Journal from the U.K., pg. 13, double muscling is undesirable in both males and females!
It lies to the Society to enforce the rules, genetic testing?
I wonder if their, U.K., scrapping of genetic/purebred percentages won't be their downfall? I think breeders worldwide want to know that!

a lot of it is a pride thing breeders wouldnt accept what they have is less than 100% pure so they scraped the percentage on the pedigrees

it says double muscling its undesirable but they are selling well
 

shortyjock89

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knabe said:
aj said:
The Shorthorn sale in Denver sells few live animals......all frozen embryos. DNA identification of lethal genetic defects........industry wide. I think that the identification of genetic defects were hastened by social media discussion. The Milkers were used followed up by the Maine Anjou........black color is now accepted in the Shorthorn breed.


I think you may have had a couple for sale at the Denver show. Why did you stop.


Has a black won a heifer or a bull class yet?

No, because you can only register them at 50%. He doesn't know what he's talking about. As per usual.
 

Duncraggan

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woodyc said:
Duncraggan said:
woodyc said:
in the UK the beef shorthorns have a few with double muscling coming into the breed
According to vol. 13 2017 Beef Shorthorn Journal from the U.K., pg. 13, double muscling is undesirable in both males and females!
It lies to the Society to enforce the rules, genetic testing?
I wonder if their, U.K., scrapping of genetic/purebred percentages won't be their downfall? I think breeders worldwide want to know that!
a lot of it is a pride thing breeders wouldnt accept what they have is less than 100% pure so they scraped the percentage on the pedigrees

it says double muscling its undesirable but they are selling well
Doesn't make sense that they can be sold as registered purebreds when they don't meet the breed minimum standards/guidelines!
Where to from here, black Shorthorns?
 

shortybreeder

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Olson Family Shorthorns said:
knabe said:
aj said:
The Shorthorn sale in Denver sells few live animals......all frozen embryos. DNA identification of lethal genetic defects........industry wide. I think that the identification of genetic defects were hastened by social media discussion. The Milkers were used followed up by the Maine Anjou........black color is now accepted in the Shorthorn breed.


I think you may have had a couple for sale at the Denver show. Why did you stop.


Has a black won a heifer or a bull class yet?

No, because you can only register them at 50%. He doesn't know what he's talking about. As per usual.
Actually, they have made a change in the rules/regulations in Section 3 Subsection B paragraph 1 to remove the 50% limitation on black cattle. Black cattle are still ineligible for purebred status, but they will be recorded with the correct shorthorn blood %.
 

Hopster1000

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In the UK, any animal born after a certain date, is not having its percentage shorthorn shown. Very few animals would not be well above 90% with the lesser percentage made up from the Maine Anjou influence. If you wish to work out the exact percentage of these animals it is still easy enough to work from the previous generation. Having said that, the general trend the last few years is for these percentage shorthorns to creep towards the high 90s, pushing toward 100%. This is mainly due to the influence of North American and Australian semen and embryos.

As regards the double muscling, at a development weekend towards the end of the year, it was mentioned, and any animal that's under suspicion of double muscling would need to be genetically tested and could not be registered as pedigree. Many none shorthorn people that see the trend of improving shorthorns and higher prices in the UK are quick to say it's because they are double muscled. I think there is a slight element of jealousy involved in those statements. They are very wrong, as the broader, better muscled cattle have mainly a North American influence and are just different from the traditional, slightly harder doing British shorthorn. They still have good maternal traits and the muscling shown is a softer, easier doing muscle than the lean double muscling.
An example of this would be the cattle bred from a bull called Elloit Matrix. He is an ET son of Star P Matrix and B Good Red Sue. Elliot Matrix is producing well muscled, colourful shorthorns.
Australian bulls like Ingleton C111 and Broughton Park Thunder are also increasing the muscling and rib eye in their off-spring.

As for black or blue shorthorns - they will only ever be commercial stock in the UK and Ireland. There is no equivalent of shorthorn plus. To register a foundation female, she must be inspected to meet the traits and visual requirements of the shorthorn breed and a further 3 generations are then required before they become pedigree.
 

shortyjock89

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shortybreeder said:
Olson Family Shorthorns said:
knabe said:
aj said:
The Shorthorn sale in Denver sells few live animals......all frozen embryos. DNA identification of lethal genetic defects........industry wide. I think that the identification of genetic defects were hastened by social media discussion. The Milkers were used followed up by the Maine Anjou........black color is now accepted in the Shorthorn breed.


I think you may have had a couple for sale at the Denver show. Why did you stop.


Has a black won a heifer or a bull class yet?

No, because you can only register them at 50%. He doesn't know what he's talking about. As per usual.
Actually, they have made a change in the rules/regulations in Section 3 Subsection B paragraph 1 to remove the 50% limitation on black cattle. Black cattle are still ineligible for purebred status, but they will be recorded with the correct shorthorn blood %.

Yep, you're right. Doesn't exactly change much as far as the show ring though.
 

aj

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The Shorthorn show cattle are protected from the black cattle except in the Shorthorn plus deal. Cattle have to be 50% Shorthorn to be shown as a plus......I think. I thought I was right on the color deal.
 

mark tenenbaum

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aj said:
Loving has been selling the hell out of black bulls.GO FIGURE-the other side of the coin is that at least 90% of the black cattle in this country are descended from Shorthorns anyway-STARTING WITH ANGUS I would like to see some of those Loving and Jungels x bred black and blue bulls used on a good Hereford based cowherd onetimeO0
 

aj

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I never understood the value of a blue roan bull but somebody must use them. I don't see how it would hurt a Shorthorn breeder to offer a handful of black bulls in their production sale. You do what ever you gotta do to get people on the farm........in the seats or whatever. A guy shows up with a trailer and doesn't get a black bull bought bought......he may take a red one. Or at least he is trying a half blood shortie. Any commercial cattle man still in business after 20 years is gotta be sharp. The commercial guys got better grades then the seedstock people got in college. There are acres and acres of bulls out there for sale and they are looking for value.......a good buy...... It may be a 2,500 $ bull and it may be a 7,000$ dollar bull.
 
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