Cloned Show Steers

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frostback

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Show Heifer said:
From what I understand, it is possible to remove the carrier gene and replace it (gene slicing) but greatly reduces the risk of survivability.
I have often wandered, if you own the animal, do you legally own the DNA? What keeps someone from gathering dna in the tie outs at 3 am?

I think you mean "wondered" to think or speculate curiously
    because        "wandered" means to move without a definite destination
 

tj1993

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I can't help but speak up here...aren't most of the successful show steers and many heifers produced from semen out of cloned bulls?  I imagine if we figured it out about 90% of you are showing an animal that benefited from clonning technology somewhere in the past.  I for one want to have this technology available to me in the future if I ever have a "great one".
You can't say the technology is kinda okay in one area and not another...you either support it or you don't.
tj
 

STEER_1981

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Here are my thoughts regarding cloned steers via a few illustrations:

Let's assume that, today, it costs $20k to clone a steer and that a cloned steer is exactly like the original in every way.  At this price point, cloned steers are reserved for the rich.  Still, $20k clones should have an effect on the industry.  To illustrate, those who really want to win, and have the money, may pay $20k for a proven clone, especially if the original steer was a winner as a calf and as a fat steer.  However, those folks would probably not pay $50k for a regular and unproven calf, even if extremely good.  In fact, they might not pay $25k or even $20k.  The proven clone at $20k seems to be a good option. 

In ten years though, let's assume that it costs $5k to clone a steer.  At that price point, more people would purchase a clone.  So, major shows, like the Iowa State Fair, might have 50 clones, rather than just a couple.  Further, the amount of money those people would be willing to pay for a regular steer, even if extremely good, would probably be close to $5k. 

Finally, in 20 years, let's assume that it costs just $1k to clone a steer.  At this price, we could all show cloned steers.  I think that the playing field in the show steer game could be leveled.  The winners in this illustration won't necessarily be the ones with the most money, but the ones with the most knowledge and elbow grease.

What do you all think? 
 

Aussie

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STEER_1981 said:
Finally, in 20 years, let's assume that it costs just $1k to clone a steer.  At this price, we could all show cloned steers.  I think that the playing field in the show steer game could be leveled.  The winners in this illustration won't necessarily be the ones with the most money, but the ones with the most knowledge and elbow grease.

What do you all think? 
I can see your point but I like breeding cattle I get a real kick out of matching a cow to a bull a waiting for the result.However if a U beaut cow was cheap to clone I would look at it. I suppose I want my cake and eat it to.
 

Telos

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The question I ask... How could one feel good about themselves knowing that you are the only one in the competition that has a cloned animal while all the other competitors where showing calves from traditional matings? There is something almost sinister about that and I personally would feel somewhat voided if I had the opportunity to compete against a field that were at such a handicap. I just don't feel like I would have been the true winner with that kind of advantage.

Maybe this is what the future holds...And by the way, does anyone have clones for sale to the grand steer @ the American Royal, 2008?  I need one to win my county fair.  <cowboy>



 

Show Heifer

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Thanks frostie for holding me to a higher standard than everyone else. It can only make me a better person! Thanks.              But isnt her post the type that Jason and everyone is comaining about making SP a "meaner place"?              Just sayin'
 

advocate

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I think you mean complaining. Nobody knows what comaining is. JMO.  And BTW the majority of your posts is what everyone is COMPLAINING about.
 

knabe

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STEER_1981 said:
Finally, in 20 years, let's assume that it costs just $1k to clone a steer.  At this price, we could all show cloned steers.  I think that the playing field in the show steer game could be leveled.  The winners in this illustration won't necessarily be the ones with the most money, but the ones with the most knowledge and elbow grease.

What do you all think? 

capitalism.  probably will never work.  it's been tried before.

perhaps the better option is unlevel playing field, level outcome no matter the cost.  it will probably work, it's never worked before, we just need to do it better.

incentive is evil and leads to jealousy.
 

Dozer45

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I never really liked the idea of cloning breeding stock because the whole point is to improve from generation to generation if you keep using the same genetic material you are simply running in place, sure they might produce winning calves every time but they arent getting any better. When you put cloned steers into the mix you are really messing things up. Plus if everyone started cloning steers, you wouldnt need excelent breeding animals anymore would you?
 

knabe

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i've never really understood what better cattle really look like

i haven't really seen an improvement in cattle in 40 years.

the ratio of good cattle to bad cattle doesn't seem to have changed.

if anything, there are more bad cattle showing up in the showring than ever before.

nothing creates more fear in some than competition.
 

Show Heifer

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Sorry the little keys on my blackberry and my fat fingers don't get along. And MY post? Your joking right?
 

Torch

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Cloning steers show a lack of initiative. Eventually it will ruin the market for clubby bulls and females.

What happens when there are 100 champion steers for sale cloned from the same champion steer. What will the judge say. "Since they move, look and are the same the one that will be your champion is steer X since it's hair is a 1/16" longer."
 

knabe

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capitalism tends to consolidate, then create something new, like when buggy whips were no longer needed.

believe it or not, something will happen after the clones.  

hopefully not another star wars movie.
 

Show Heifer

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Torch: you make a valid point... That would be funny to watch a judge sort a pen of full clone sibs. But heatwave has proved they would all be a bit different!
 

Torch

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knabe said:
believe it or not, something will happen after the clones.  

hopefully not another star wars movie.

Now that's funny! ;D
 

OH Breeder

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Torch said:
Cloning steers show a lack of initiative. Eventually it will ruin the market for clubby bulls and females.

What happens when there are 100 champion steers for sale cloned from the same champion steer. What will the judge say. "Since they move, look and are the same the one that will be your champion is steer X since it's hair is a 1/16" longer."

No then they might actually evaluate a carcass and see who really did a good job feeding.  ;)
 

OLD WORLD SHORTIE

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if i can have all cloned calves of my type i will be friggen happy. But i figure they will syndicate them some how so that way they are able to keep the price up on the calves.
 

evermoor

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Isn't this the compliant that was said when ET started???  They have  cloned dairy cattle for awhile and haven't seen that collapse.  Initially the cows milk couldn't be used for human consumption because of FDA regs.  My main concern is that this is a4-H  market animal, is it approved for human consumption  ?? Obviously it is, but what are we teaching kids??? So many people get discouraged because of the big money, now this too.
 

knabe

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twins are more alike than clones.

should we outlaw one of the two twins?

should we outlaw close matings?

where is the line?
 
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