cloning.......purebred people vs. club calf people

Seems like the purebred people don't hardly clone at all whereas the clubbies do alot of it. Is this true? If so what are the reasonss? Merchandising stratagies? Ethics? Religous beliefs? Or has Trump been cloned......6807 etc.

It seems to me that cloning simply stagnates the gene pool. Limits the chance to produce the next "great one" that is an outcross to the popular bloodlines. The Red Angus gene pool, for example, is small enough that there are limited choices of bloodlines anyway. Imagine if everyone in the breed used the same cloned bull because of his popularity. It seems to me that many of the popular "breed" bulls are collected to the extent that cloning might not be as advantageous as it is for some of the "clubby" bulls that seem to have limited life spans and some challenges in collection.

I think that some cloning is done in the purebred herds.  I know Sullivan's have cloned Total Solution and many of their donor cows.

Many international markets do not allow the use of clones or their genetics (semen or embryos).  I know in Canada you can't register any offspring of a clone.  For purebreds, the international market is a significant factor.  Genex did clone SAV Final Answer.  I believe the clone is mostly used for large commercial heifer projects though.

To be honest, I don't think you are supposed to use clones' semen even for clubbies/unregistered cattle in Canada.  Maybe someone who knows more about that could chime in?

aj said:

Seems like the purebred people don't hardly clone at all whereas the clubbies do alot of it. Is this true? If so what are the reasonss? Merchandising stratagies? Ethics? Religous beliefs? Or has Trump been cloned......6807 etc.

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i can't remember. i think 6807 or anchor is cloned and they are in argentina.

That is interesting because i believe 6807 came out in like 85-88', and cloning didnt become big to the early 2000's thats some awfully old DNA to be cloning... If so I wish semen would be plentiful and come up for sale again!  <rock>

Sizzler14 said:

That is interesting because i believe 6807 came out in like 85-88', and cloning didnt become big to the early 2000's thats some awfully old DNA to be cloning... If so I wish semen would be plentiful and come up for sale again!  <rock>

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it's probably anchor then

will they patent the clones and own the seed?

cowboy_nyk

Cloned semen is not legal to import in to Canada.  It's not likely to change anytime soon.

What about eating clones.....or clone offspring? I wouldn't think there would be a problem......unless it was a merchandising world wide problem.

is eating plant clones a moral issue?

aj said:

What about eating clones.....or clone offspring? I wouldn't think there would be a problem......unless it was a merchandising world wide problem.

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Image is everything...especially if it is wrong.  Meaning eating DNA from an animal does not make you that animal; cloned DNA is protein, just like non-cloned DNA. Cloned DNA is made up of A,D,G,C links just like non-DNA. If I eat pork (which is pig DNA) it does not make me a pig.  That being said, image is everything.  The EU has banned cloned meat, but with no scientific evidence or argument.  I will commend the EU as they at least seem to listen to their citizens, and that seems to be an improvement over the USA gov't.  (Another topic, so I will leave it at that!)


On to the topic of clones.  I do not agree with cloning on the basis of non improvement.  By the time you see that an animal is superior, and you go through the process of cloning, at least 5 years have lapsed and the breed should have moved forward. There are exceptions to that of course, but those animals are true outliers and probably not accepted at the time they were around and therefore not cloned. 
I think cattle are cattle, regardless of "clubbie" or "purebred", but the industries are entirely different.  Those differences make cloning "acceptable" in the clubbie industry but maybe not so much in the purebred industry. 
As far as genetic diversity topic; every breed has plenty of diversity, but it is the lack of use of those "different" bloodlines, and lack of true ingenuity and creative livestock breeding programs instead of just trying to sell a one time wonder. 

BTDT said:

On to the topic of clones.  I do not agree with cloning on the basis of non improvement.  By the time you see that an animal is superior, and you go through the process of cloning, at least 5 years have lapsed and the breed should have moved forward. There are exceptions to that of course, but those animals are true outliers and probably not accepted at the time they were around and therefore not cloned.

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why should there be exceptions and why should you be one to define them?


you should stand by your first statement and mandate that all semen be destroyed after 5 years and cloning be made illegal.  plants, same way.  we should all be "moving forward" reminds me of communism.


http://allamericanblogger.com/blog/20824/obama-campaign-slogan-forward-has-history-in-communist-propaganda-probably-just-a-coincidence/

I worked for ViaGen, the cloning company for 8 yrs. I believe there are lots of reasons one might choose to clone an animal. For example, I have 9 clones of the 248 Charolais cow. She is one of the best known and productive Cigar daughters in the breed. I sold her (and reserved the right to clone her) when she was an already popular 5 year old cow. She had great value at that productive time in her life. Most of her sons and daughters have been very good. Some are probably better than she is. With clones of her I can continue to produce offspring and fill my pastures with 248 genetics and sell some along the way as well. I have two older cows now that I will likely clone. One is Cooley Royce's dam and the other is Goin' Places, a former national reserve champion. Again, both of the cows have produced great offspring and I want as many of them as I can get.

whitecow said:

I worked for ViaGen, the cloning company for 8 yrs. I believe there are lots of reasons one might choose to clone an animal. For example, I have 9 clones of the 248 Charolais cow. She is one of the best known and productive Cigar daughters in the breed. I sold her (and reserved the right to clone her) when she was an already popular 5 year old cow. She had great value at that productive time in her life. Most of her sons and daughters have been very good. Some are probably better than she is. With clones of her I can continue to produce offspring and fill my pastures with 248 genetics and sell some along the way as well. I have two older cows now that I will likely clone. One is Cooley Royce's dam and the other is Goin' Places, a former national reserve champion. Again, both of the cows have produced great offspring and I want as many of them as I can get.

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Very well said. 

I believe in progress and improvement.  On rare occasion, one comes along that is 2 or 3 generations better than their peers.  To destroy this gene pool after 5 years would be foolish because their peer group is still way behind them.

Heatwave is the bull that immediately comes to mind.  When he came along, he was far superior to anything else out there.  He has sired bulls that have proven to out perform him in some areas (semen sales, hair quality, and milk production for sure), yet 15 years later he still produces some of the best.

I like your logic, and it is obviously working for you.

I bet the "very best" cattle were and are cattle that never left the ranch or farm where they were born.  Generations of cattle and farmers wound into a double helix of place.  How can you clone that?

i just have a lot of respect for cattle that are not rich or famous, not to detract from those that are.

whitecow said:

I worked for ViaGen, the cloning company for 8 yrs. I believe there are lots of reasons one might choose to clone an animal. For example, I have 9 clones of the 248 Charolais cow. She is one of the best known and productive Cigar daughters in the breed. I sold her (and reserved the right to clone her) when she was an already popular 5 year old cow. She had great value at that productive time in her life. Most of her sons and daughters have been very good. Some are probably better than she is. With clones of her I can continue to produce offspring and fill my pastures with 248 genetics and sell some along the way as well. I have two older cows now that I will likely clone. One is Cooley Royce's dam and the other is Goin' Places, a former national reserve champion. Again, both of the cows have produced great offspring and I want as many of them as I can get.

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I assume the price of cloning has trended down as we have seen the procedure taken place more often.  Can you provide #s of what it cost 8 years ago and what it cost now

bim1986 said:

whitecow said:

I worked for ViaGen, the cloning company for 8 yrs. I believe there are lots of reasons one might choose to clone an animal. For example, I have 9 clones of the 248 Charolais cow. She is one of the best known and productive Cigar daughters in the breed. I sold her (and reserved the right to clone her) when she was an already popular 5 year old cow. She had great value at that productive time in her life. Most of her sons and daughters have been very good. Some are probably better than she is. With clones of her I can continue to produce offspring and fill my pastures with 248 genetics and sell some along the way as well. I have two older cows now that I will likely clone. One is Cooley Royce's dam and the other is Goin' Places, a former national reserve champion. Again, both of the cows have produced great offspring and I want as many of them as I can get.

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I assume the price of cloning has trended down as we have seen the procedure taken place more often.  Can you provide #s of what it cost 8 years ago and what it cost now

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Bump

I don't know what the current prices are but I don't think they have not changed much...$15-20,000 depending on when they are born and how many copies you want.