Club Calf Bull Semen Quality

I am not looking to bash any of these club calf bull owners as I have used bulls from all of these owners. But I have had ALOT better success with certain owners. I would like to see what others AI success rates are with these club calf bull owners. But with some of these popular bulls if they are really diluting (extending) the semen more than they should making it poor quality. I am well aware with all the other factors involved but we all know semen quality is a huge part of AI success. I only AI'd 10 cows this spring, 7 of the 10 took from 1st AI, the 3 that did not take were all the same bull. All cows were in excellent shape in good heat with an ABS AI technician who has been AI'ing over 30 years. But thought it was a little strange that the 3 that did not take were all the same bull out of one of these above owners. Now I can say I have had great success out of 2 of the above owners and VERY poor results out of one owner above and looking for people to post who they have had the poor results from. I am not saying who I had the poor results from as not to bash anyone but I truly believe there is some very low quality semen being sold do to a popular demand on the semen. As far as me I know it is going to effect of what bull semen I buy next breeding season. Yes I am having a straw of semen from the bull I used and all 3 were open tested by my vet, used that bull on 3 cows and all 3 cows were open the other 7 took, very suspicious and a very popular club calf bull that I bought that semen this early spring. The 7 that did take were from different owners than the 3 that did not, so one owner's bull had 0% success rate in my cows and 2 other owners that made up the other 7 cows had a 100% success rate,  ???. Again please vote for the one you have had the worst AI success rate with. Another question, does anyone know if ABS collects there own semen from these bulls or just get the straws from the owners, have had great success from the semen I bought from them and was club calf semen.

I didn't and won't vote - honestly haven't felt like I personally have experienced any major quality issues with semen I've used or bought and resold  in several years.  Since I suspect this thread won't stay up long, I'm just posting to say yes, ABS (and COBA) do their own collections (at least in most cases) and I believe they do hold the semen they sell to higher standards than many other sources believe is necessary.

I have had good luck and bad luck with different batches of semen but the results are impacted by so many other factors than semen quality that I think it is unfair to respond to this poll. 

DLD said:

I didn't and won't vote - honestly haven't felt like I personally have experienced any major quality issues with semen I've used or bought and resold  in several years.  Since I suspect this thread won't stay up long, I'm just posting to say yes, ABS (and COBA) do their own collections (at least in most cases) and I believe they do hold the semen they sell to higher standards than many other sources believe is necessary.

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I know this might be a touchy subject but is an honest thread or poll. The bottom line is many people pay are paying good money (Even though that don't bother me the most, pushing the cow back 3 weeks bothers me more) for semen that is subquality. I suspected ABS collected there own as I have had far better AI success rates buying the club calf semen from them. The way I see it, I have nothing against any of the owners and would like to use  bulls from all those owners but they should strive to produce better quality semen. You just hit the nail on the head with saying ABS holds the semen they collect to a higher standard, the reason other don't use as high of a standard is about profit. I do wish there was a required amount of living sperm cells in each straw to sell. I would be willing to pay more per straw for better quality like I said the pushing the cow back another 3 weeks which makes a later born calf is worse to me than the cost of the semen. Hey might be touchy to someone but is the truth and I did not put any one person on the chopping block or making anyone cast a vote. One thing this has done for me is told me buy all my semen from ABS.

Hands down MLC

This poll is an excellent idea that can't possibly go horrifyingly wrong or jump to completely unfair conclusions.

Every bull is different. But I know my walks alone semen has been steller, monopoly good, monopoly 2 bad.

ABS does not collect all of the semen that they sell anymore & haven't for some time. MLC & Lautner Farms are more than half the time the very same deal. 7 out of 10 is better than most PPL expect or get. There are minimum standards set for semen quality, but I don't know how well it is adhered to.

I think it mostly depends on which location the semen is collected...

Personally, I know a guy who's selling semen on his bull through cattlevisions... and he first had the bull collected at one Iowa location-- and had it frozen with excellent concentration.. but then cattlevisions had him collected at the other location-- and froze in much lesser concentration... and when people complain about conception rates-- he asks which batch they got...

Dont' ask me which location is which-- I dont' remember.

Jeff_Schroeder said:

This poll is an excellent idea that can't possibly go horrifyingly wrong or jump to completely unfair conclusions.

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Just to let everyone know I lost my phone in the lake this past weekend, please direct all phone calls to my proxy, Big M.

outspoken said:

I think it mostly depends on which location the semen is collected...

Personally, I know a guy who's selling semen on his bull through cattlevisions... and he first had the bull collected at one Iowa location-- and had it frozen with excellent concentration.. but then cattlevisions had him collected at the other location-- and froze in much lesser concentration... and when people complain about conception rates-- he asks which batch they got...

Dont' ask me which location is which-- I dont' remember.

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That makes alot of sense and I believe that, but I would say if ABS does not collect semen they do a great job of monitoring quality of the semen they sell. You would hope that the bull's owner would stop using collection facilities that don't have as good of concentration of living cells. I just pulled the poll anyway, I just feel it upset to many people even if the truth hurts I guess and to limit the sarcasm. I don't complain about 7 out of 10 and that is about average for what I get as I strive for healthy females and try to use GOOD semen. But all 3 open females were AI'd with same bull, that raises concern no matter what anybody tells me.

Soehnlen Cattle Co. said:

Every bull is different. But I know my walks alone semen has been steller, monopoly good, monopoly 2 bad.

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All I am going to say is I get awesome conception rates with Walks Alone every year and he is an awesome bull, no comment on the others.

Seems to me a qc report should be available with every order.

Did the semen get frozen and was it checked after that and compared with the live test?

Jason said:

Jeff_Schroeder said:

This poll is an excellent idea that can't possibly go horrifyingly wrong or jump to completely unfair conclusions.

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Just to let everyone know I lost my phone in the lake this past weekend, please direct all phone calls to my proxy, Big M.

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No problem Jason, I pulled it just to keep the problems down, no harm intended.

knabe said:

Seems to me a qc report should be available with every order.

Did the semen get frozen and was it checked after that and compared with the live test?

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Knabe I wish I could tell you. All I know is I ordered the semen not thinking anything about it, will buy with more caution from now on.

I think that you guys are onto something I have had better luck with semen collected from Great Lakes Sire service than other collection places.  I have never had a problem with semen bought from my ABS rep.  When ordering from some other dealer I try and find out where the bull was collected.

Jason said:

Jeff_Schroeder said:

This poll is an excellent idea that can't possibly go horrifyingly wrong or jump to completely unfair conclusions.

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Just to let everyone know I lost my phone in the lake this past weekend, please direct all phone calls to my proxy, Big M.

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Yes, let's avoid talking about an issue that affects real world cattle people because they pump a lot of advertising dollars into both of your sites.

I can understand what you are thinking Zach and if I didn't know better I'd agree but that thought never crossed my mind.  What did cross my mind are the reasons cited above (handling of the semen plays a larger role than anything), small sample, sizes and logical fallacies.

If you listen to enough people talk about enough bull studs, you're going to hear opinions all over the map from good to bad.  If you listen to just a few people that each only breed just a few calves, you're going to hear the extremes.

Secondly, there's a bit of reverse survivorship bias in such a poll.  Just because of the way it was designed, the people that don't have trouble just go about their day.  The people that do have trouble with a cane for whatever reason aren't the slightest bit hesitant to be vocal about it.

The only way to fairly make such judgements would be to actually test semen that's been handled in a controlled manner.

Do you know of any one that has bought a club calf bull with adequate  scrotal  development or was really concerned about it ,and this practice was basis for a lot of the females being used to breed to now .....

ET technicans will all tell you that semen for club calf bulls is by far less quality that most of the other breeds ....
I personally try to use embryo's to raise what club calves I raise ,I know I have a viable product to put in that cow ,with the people I use to do this I'm pretty much guaranteed 50% (the worst result ) to 70 some %  a lot of the time .....

THE people YOU choose to work  with is a very important factor as far as how good a semen you get ........Bad news travels fast ,

I've had one bull of our collected and I was amazed at how strict the quality control was till they would freeze our semen.  I got quite the education on the whole process - even though we were collecting just for our own use.  I can't imagine there's that much difference between one stud and the next.  

I heard rumors on a very popular bull (who just passed away) having bad semen.  I bought from the owner - and I've never had higher success conception rates on a bull - each of the past three years.

I bought semen on another very popular maternal bull who's been around a while now and I've never heard a rumor on.  I stuck one cow out of ten.

Handling and just poor random luck are much more likely the culprits for all of us than anything systematic problem with one stud or one bull owner.  I'm sure accidents happen in collection that nobody catches, but they'll be very random.

Knabe - I'm quite sure you could get QC data from the stud if you wanted to call and ask for it for any straw collected.

I have done alot of stuff over the years to increase my AI conception rates and have been running between 70 and 80% the past 2 years. Yes I AI'd only 10 but all 10 were for club calves and clubby semen used. The semen was handled the same on all 10 and were all AI'd by the ABS tech that has been doing this longer than most (30 years). Yes clubby semen is not as good as most PB but there is a HUGE difference in quality in the clubby business. Where there is smoke there is fire and should have listened when many people on this site said about a certain bull's semen quality, you live and you learn and I wanted to take a shot and got burned. Not all clubby semen is equal. I have a feeling what my vet is going to tell me after he tests it Monday. I try to buy my semen by the cane to limit the amount of the straws being handled. I have a feeling after Monday, if anyone thinks its not the semen quality, I will be willing to sell you some semen for a discounted rate, lol.

chambero said:

I've had one bull of our collected and I was amazed at how strict the quality control was till they would freeze our semen.  I got quite the education on the whole process - even though we were collecting just for our own use.  I can't imagine there's that much difference between one stud and the next. 

I heard rumors on a very popular bull (who just passed away) having bad semen.  I bought from the owner - and I've never had higher success conception rates on a bull - each of the past three years.

I bought semen on another very popular maternal bull who's been around a while now and I've never heard a rumor on.  I stuck one cow out of ten.

Handling and just poor random luck are much more likely the culprits for all of us than anything systematic problem with one stud or one bull owner.  I'm sure accidents happen in collection that nobody catches, but they'll be very random.

Knabe - I'm quite sure you could get QC data from the stud if you wanted to call and ask for it for any straw collected.

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Been awhile, but I was just wondering if anyone has ever called the stud to check on their numbers after poor conception results.