Club Calf Producers/Traders that have kids showing

I have always wondered how those of you that produce or trade club calves handle the sensitive nature of having your own kids showing against your customers.

On one hand I certainly feel that your kids deserve the opportunity to show calves.  It is in their blood, they have been raised around it, and many times there is no better home to have a good one in than your own.

On the other hand, I can see how your customers could grow tired of having the people they spend money with beating them.

Personally, we don't buy calves from people that show against us.

I was wondering this myself a while back. I was looking at Brandon Horn's page and lots of the recent winners had the last name of Horn, so i was curious of that myself how you manage that situation.

My problem is not showing against the club calf producer if they show their own calves.  My problem is when their calves are good enough to sell to someone else, but then they take your money and buy "better" calves from another producer for their kids to show.

We sale calves and lambs, and the sales we have all is offered on sale day at reasonable prices. After the sale our kids get to pick what is left.we still manage to be in the top at our county fair. Fair or not fair to the kids. Reason how can we market our product if we keep the best.2 getting beat by your own stuff is good for business. That way they cannot say we kept the best for us. Right or wrong way that our way, and we are sill in the champion drive with one no one wanted.

"My problem is not showing against the club calf producer if they show their own calves.  My problem is when their calves are good enough to sell to someone else, but then they take your money and buy "better" calves from another producer for their kids to show."

This can go both ways.  I have a friend who does this.  His theory is he does not want to beat the local kids who bought calves from him with his own calves.  He sold all the best ones and went out and bought a different one from someone else that anyone else could have bought. This way he can't get accused of holding back the best ones.  I know another outfit who kept back the best and beat his customers at all the jackpots.  Guess what, sale prices and numbers declined, now he does not even have a sale this year.  Whenever looking at these situations, ask yourself how you would handle all criticism if you were in their shoes.  The other is how to explain to the kids you sold the best, show what's left.  That can be challenging also.  No bias on my part either way, but the road is not a one-way street.

This topic interests me because the date is set, we have four going in March to be A I for(hopefully)December show steers. After careful consideration we have decided we are going to try to sell these steers in the next county. First to avoid these conflicts of interest. Second the next county has their show after ours which is better for December calves. Third our county sale/auction is the most screwed up thing I have ever seen. If we were to sell a kid the grand, it would automatically be assumed that we would buy it back in the sale. Our name would be mud if we didn't. And the grand usually goes for 12-15k. There is no way in hades we could do that.

Edited to add that people do go buy steers from breeders and traders and they don't expect them to buy back the steers but because we are local, in they same county it would be considered the height of rudeness to no buy back the steer. Never mind the fact that we have our own kids to get money together for. We would have to specify when we sell the steer we can't buy it back. That would tank the sell right there.

With the hagie family in central iowa (Cyclone Trace shorthorns) the kids do not sho pb shorthorns, they usually show a Maine, chi, cross ect...

That's a bridge we will have to cross a few years down the road. I had an older reputable cowman tell me to let the customer get the better calves and you'll get repeat customers plus it gets your name out there if the calves happen to win. Hopefully we won't have to compete against our own.

There are some dairy farmers around here, 5th generation. Their kids are business partners from day one. They worked and they got a share of the milk check. They were required to save half the money, and if they wanted something they had money to buy it. The boy has now taken his fathers place running the farm and the girl is a businesswoman marketing organic milk. They didn't just learn to work, they learned to make a living.

If the club calf producer kid owns or has an interest in a cow then the choice is theirs to show or sell that calf. If their cow isn't working for them they have the ability to earn money to buy a better cow. As they get older, I bet they sell their calves and show the leftovers. Kids spend their own money differently than they spend ours.

Librarian that is the best answer, that is how I want to raise my boys.

I know of families that sell and show calves that offer everything for sale and show whats left and with their knowledge and work ethic win major shows.Many times the calf that is 12oclock in the Sept/Dec sales  looks the best it ever will.Once a calf is purchased the price is only a number then the real work begins.I have seen unclipped or green calves that are really good not even get a second look.

This is a real "pet peeve" of mine for all the reasons that have already been stated.  In my mind I would have one rule with respect to Junior Shows: "Don't show what you sell". If you sell cattle, show lambs or pigs or goats and vise versa.
The only exception to this rule is Open Shows.  Show all you want, great advertising and demonstrates you know what you are doing. I know there are quite a few people that sell to Juniors and show in Juniors, with big success on both ends, but they don't get my money.

Another idea is show them early as feeders to advertise for your sale and then spend the summer helping your customers win.

In my opinion, the sellers are in a no win situation.

Your business depends upon exposure and advertising.  You get that by winning.  You want to believe that your customer will listen to you and allow you to help them be successful, but most of them won't.  You don't want to beat your customers, but you NEED your cattle to succeed. 

I have several friends that are in this situation or getting ready to be.  One of them has had it really hurt his business.  People have openly said that they won't buy a steer today so that it can get beat by the seller tomorrow. 

Another one will take two shows a year that every customer knows he is going to take his kids to.  During these two show weekends it is as if he is gone on vacation.  He will not help anyone other than his own kids.  Every customer knows that these two weekends they will be on their own if they choose to go.  The rest of the time he will show out of state.

The other has a little brother showing, and they show heifers only.  They sell steers and they show heifers.  Yes, they beat their customers A LOT, but they do not beat the cattle that they have sold.  I thought this was a good idea when they started out, but the truth is that there are a whole lot of people that won't buy from him either.

I understand what others have posted here regarding the philosophy of showing the left overs.  But lets be honest with ourselves and one another.  How do any of us know that the "best" calves have in fact been offered for sale?  How do we know that the steer that gets pulled out 6 months later is in fact the same coon dog gutted bad haired green one that none of us were smart enough to notice at sale time?

Aside than the obvious big money trading elite stuff that is NOT a level playing field; you get what you have the money or innate skills to take out there. So its 2 points JMO-the big bucks win- and the breeder keeps and maybe shows some good ones.They  have to to keep females at least-to keep producing the right kinds to sell: and they either lost the income on thier own breeding or bought a good one for thier kids (if the green ones didnt turn out). I dont think anyone owns a breeder after they purchase a calf-Its up to them to do the best they can with what they have-I got hammered for years when I was young-competing at 10-11 years old against professional farmers-fitters where thier kids (who barely knew the calves) won every where. Thats how I learned what was what-and finally started BEATING THEM. My father had no idea what a cow was: and only stepped in when one of those "farmers" tried to have my hiefer disqulified etc. and was giving me a hard time. He wasnt so big and bad when the old man tapped him on the shoulder and politely asked if hed like to step out back for a minute.O0

My little brother only shows heifers and he shows a breed that we don't raise or sell or have a hand in besides purchasing her

he doesn't show steers because I sell all the top end

Keep it as 2 different operations. He shows different stock than we raise and sell

I think thats a noble gesture: but he ought to be able to show what he likes,just as everyone else does. I guess its just a different opinion-JMO O0

My take on this is that everyone has the oppurtunity to go out an by any animal from any breeder. Most of these traders put in thousand and thousand of miles to find the best for their customers. On the other hand how would u feel if u were one of these big time traders and your kid has that desire to show what u sell and wants to be successful......would u really tell your child no.....doubt it! The other thing I'm seeing is that most of these traders actually own some of the best cows in the business. So what if their kids showed what they raised. Could u say anything then???? Jmo

We don't sell many prospect calves but my kids own cows and calves are theirs to pick from. If they want something from my cows they wait til out cows are picked over first. Now I'm fortunate our oldest daughter is only seven and is just picking a replacement hefiers each year right now. But I'm confident in our cattle herd that our top 25% will be competitive at local 4h so when she's 4h age she will still get second pick on my calves. Although she has a good little group of colored cows I imagine she will show her own calves lol. She like the yellows and smokes more than my reds.

This is something we are dealing with right now. My niece started showing last year and to get her hooked we got her some gentle yet high quality calves. We upped the ante this year to make sure she likes it.  So for the first two years we didn't offer everything for sale.  I understand that has or may have turned some people off from our organization. But frankly I can't make everyone happy no matter what I do so taking care of family is my number one priority.  We will from this point forward offer everything for sale, at values I feel they are worth. If we have some left over that I think are good enough for my niece to show we will show them. If not we will go find her cattle. 

The reason we support the junior cattle project is the lessons taught in the barn and the showring. Why on earth would I not give my own children and nieces the same opportunities?  If someone disagrees with our stance then once again I can't make everyone happy so why try?