Color Question

Ok after reading that article last night and going to bed when I got up to check cows I think I understand the confusion. You are thinking that the roan or roaning is a marking like body white where you need to put a colour and a marking gene in the punnett square. Can we agree that a homo black animal would be a EE, and a hetro animal is a Ee, both are black animals but one could produce red offspring if mated to another red. A red animal would be ee. Correct? Are you with me so far?

Yes, on the color marking I am looking at roan just like the article you are speaking of.  Roan is a color pattern, not a color, unless it's homozygous in which case that color pattern takes the form of white over the entire body.  However, you cannot just throw "W" in with extension because of the incomeplete dominance of it.

And yes on the EE, Ee, and ee.

The way that applies to the original reason I replied to you (Blue roan to a Red - 50% black calf - 50% red roan) is that breeding can result in red, and blue roan calves as well.

Jeff we have just had a A HA moment.
Shorthorns are 3 COLOURS( not yelling just defining) red, white and ROAN. It is in fact a colour not a marking. Not sure why the article says that. The R is co-dominant, not a incomeplete. Meaning that it is kinda equal to black or E. They will both be expressed unlike the black "hiding" a e or red. So a blue roan animal is not a EE with a R it is a ER. One gene from the sire and one from the dam. It is not like a spot where a black spotted animal is a EE ss for spotting. I have a hard time typing what I mean to say. My mind goes faster than my fingers and sometimes I leave stuff out.

The article says that because it is right.  Roan is not a color, it is a pattern.  Black and red are the colors.

Red, white, and roam cattle are all recessive red.  The red is the solid pattern of it, the roam is the roam pattern, and white is the completely masked pattern.

Don't take my word for it, read every single piece of scientific literature.

(Phone is auto correcting., r o a n)

Oh this topic is sending me on a flashback to Biology 30 and the one time I felt ahead of my class  .  The reason was that the colour example was Shorthorn Cattle red white and roan!!!  This is a quick example I scrounged up

Jeff_Schroeder said:

  The red is the solid pattern of it,  and white is the completely masked pattern.

Click to expand...

This is correct but in the CHAROLAIS breed. They are homo red animals but are also homo for the masking or also known as the Diluter gene.
It does not work for shorthorns.

You took that quote out of context.

Roam is not a color, is is a pattern that expresses itself as solid white when homozygous.

If you are debating me on that, the only thing left to say is you need to study the literature.

Darned shorthorns make everything complicated

))

I have a blue roan cow and she has has a calf by a red roan bull and it is a black baldy.  Just show you never really know.

On my phone, alpaca academy?

I found a way to open it (sitting in barn @ sa).  What exactly do you think that proved for you?

I think both of you are right as roan is usually listed as a "color pattern". I do not claim to be fluent in any of this. don't come after me. :-\

That item and the one Jaimie posted both show it as a colour not a seperate spotting gene.

Hehe, I'm not disputing that, I'm saying you can't bunch it in with extension on a punnett square.

Roam is not a color, is is a pattern that expresses itself as solid white when homozygous.

If you are debating me on that, the only thing left to say is you need to study the literature


Yes you are. You still say it is a pattern not a colour but they are showing colour, and not using 4 genes only 2.

No, they don't and if you don't see that from that publication, this is a wasted effort.  In the roan gene example in that alpaca publication, they assume ee for extension and apply roan to it, exactly like what I've been telling you.  That does not work once you throw black into it.

Not only did you have to go to an alpaca publication to find that, you didn't understand what you were reading. 

It's okay if you want to pretend your understanding of it is correct and all literature is wrong, go ahead.  Just don't reply to people explaining genetics.

(I've probably been in a barn too long today)

here's one I just thought of for you 2.

black maine bull mated to blue roan cow-- yields red roan calf..  guessing the black sire was a red carrier

next year same cow gets mated to a black sim bull.. again,  yields red roan calf almost identical to previous year's calf.. guessing this also was not a homo black bull.. 

through it all, neither parents were red in color, and the resulting calves were only 1/4 shorthorn.