County Fair Judges

CAB not sure getting the situation changed in MN will happen.  With our present system the barns are full.  I think, I don't know, that may be the reason for the allocation system.  At the MN state fair the first 4 days are all 4-H livestock.  The middle 4 days are open class dairy, goats, sheep, hogs, and poultry.  The last 4 days are FFA beef, dairy, goats, sheep, swine, and open class beef.  With this system the barns are basically full, at least they are for 4-H.  I know the judge mainecattlemother is referring too, in fact he is more than an acquaintance to my family so this may be out of line saying, but this situation can happen at many shows. It may or may not be political.  Judge A likes his type of cattle and will pick those to place at the top.  Judge B likes his type of cattle and places those at the top.  I've seen county fair shows where a 4H grand champion was last in class 2 days later in the open class show. Local steers that bottomed in the 4H show, placed higher than the grand champion in the open show.  Different show, different day.  State fair heifer shows I have seen moderate framed, commercially oriented cattle win, and I have seen the super stout, hairy, market steer like finished heifers win.  If your showing Chevy's and the judge likes Fords, might not be a good day for you.  The obvious disappointment for mainecattlemother is if the judge picking your state fair trip eligibility does not like your type of cattle, but many in the industry do, you might not get your chance to shine in St Paul, and that is disappointing.  I tell my family when faced with this situation, "work to get it changed or suck it up". 

Good Luck and I hope the judge likes your cattle.

My family showed in a very tough county and out of the probably 12 years of eligibility that we had total for the state fair we maybe only won a trip half the years.  The years we did make it we always got purple ribbons, had some breed division champions and even made the auction a couple times at the state fair... so it wasn't because our animals were not good enough that we didn't make it, there were some tough years and some judges who just didn't like what we had.

The years we didn't make it were pretty hard on us.  But, I think that is what lit my fire and made me try harder the next year and helped me learn some hard lessons.  Looking back I thought it just wasn't fair and that the game was rigged but, it was a valuable learning experience and I'm a better cattleman because of it.

P.S. this is a public forum and its pretty easy for someone to tell the judge what is being said on here and I'm pretty sure I know who you are talking about because there aren't a lot of South Devon breeders out there,  I haven't dealt with your particular judge personally but you don't become one of the most respected cattleman of your breed by being naive when it comes to good cattle.  Since he is from Minnesota and knows the system is in your favor because he will know that the object of the state fair line-up is to make sure your county is represented well.

Jeferin said:

It sucks and it's tough but we had what your fearing happen to us last year and to another person in our county a couple of years ago as my son's steer beat there' steer. Not even close if you ask me but, he just didn't care for there type of cattle.

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I can guess who this was! : It did suck, but the same steer did very well at state, so it was easier to swallow! I didn't realize MN had this rule. Sounds like you will just have to hope for the best........and maybe become more involved in the process yourself? Good luck and hopefully you earn your ticket to state!

Sorry if I offended anyone. We were not bashing the judge or their breed of cattle just saying it should not be right for a judge to be judging his own cattle when the registration papers trace back to his own herd. We don't care that the judge is judging his own breed. We are not saying that this particular person is a bad judge, but when it comes to breed classes down at state fair, that's his main concern. If this judge doesn't pick the show the way expected, it won't be because that person doesn't like our cattle, but more because that person needs his breed represented at state fair. In this case it comes down to ethics and this judge should have respectively declined to judge our fair.

Curious what county your in. We may be interested in participating in your open class show. We are from central mn. Trust me your not the only one that has had this issue.

I've read enough. Have you ever shown under this judge. I think not. Little do you know if he is not the most qualified judge on our state judges list he is in the top 2 or 3. He has judged several breed Jr. Nationals. Several state fairs and next week he is judging s Jr.national in Canada. I have known him for 25 years I am a very good friend of his I have shown under him many times and never got any favors. If he is like me which he is he will be harder on his own breed. You think he doesn't like clubbies not true it don't matter what they are they just have to be good. And be able to walk. Which I hope all judges would want. He might like your cattle and he might not. He likes a certain type I like a certain type and you like a certain type WHO is right? So get your head out of your ass have your cattle ready and be proud of what your family has brought out this year and set a good example for your daughters. Because this isn't what you want them to learn. If you were selling breeding cattle no one would want anything to do with your operation. Just think what some people think about the judge you hired for the open show I'm sure you don't think anyone thinks the same about him like the one you are bitching about. Who is playing politics? Sure glade I'm not in your county.

Clint, you need to take a deep breath and relax. 
We all have been a victim of "politics". We all know it happens. Human nature.
I have seen bad judges judge "big shows", just read the board after Denver, Houston, etc. I have seen good judges judge a local youth show.  I have seen "good judges" hold grudges for years and black ball certain farms.
You obviously are a friend of whoever this judge is. Your view is very different from mainecattle. It is called human nature. You can defend your friend without attacking someone. Your immaturity is very evident.

Tallcool1 said:

You know what, I understand what several of you are trying to say on this thread.  We all know that there are politics in the show ring and that IS the nature of the beast.  I agree with that and it is what it is.

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I feel sorry for people that accept "it is what it is" as a reasonable explanation for anything.  These aren't some officials you only hear about and can't reach out to, these are people right there in front of you! Get up stand up. Refuse to be a victim.

If the judge acts anything like his friends your in trouble... (argue)

clintkathrein said:

I've read enough. Have you ever shown under this judge. I think not. Little do you know if he is not the most qualified judge on our state judges list he is in the top 2 or 3. He has judged several breed Jr. Nationals. Several state fairs and next week he is judging s Jr.national in Canada. I have known him for 25 years I am a very good friend of his I have shown under him many times and never got any favors. If he is like me which he is he will be harder on his own breed. You think he doesn't like clubbies not true it don't matter what they are they just have to be good. And be able to walk. Which I hope all judges would want. He might like your cattle and he might not. He likes a certain type I like a certain type and you like a certain type WHO is right? So get your head out of your ass have your cattle ready and be proud of what your family has brought out this year and set a good example for your daughters. Because this isn't what you want them to learn. If you were selling breeding cattle no one would want anything to do with your operation. Just think what some people think about the judge you hired for the open show I'm sure you don't think anyone thinks the same about him like the one you are *****ing about. Who is playing politics? Sure glade I'm not in your county.

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I think the worst thing you can do is work yourself up before it happens, even if the show goes well for you, all the worrying and fretting you do now may carry over to the fair and ruin it for your kids. If your calves are that much better than the others, he should use them, if he doesn't then address the issue. you can voice your concern but it does no good to yell foul before anything has occurred.
Tell your kids the did a great job your proud of them and go to the fair and have fun. I hope it works out for you and your family.
If things do turn out to be political after the fair work at changing the way judges are selected for the future.

This seems to happen every year in our county as well! There is a family in which their father is on the fair council board and he seems to have his hand in the pot when it comes to getting judges for our cattle show. Now unlike some county fairs, how well you do in the county show has no effect on if you can show at state fair or not, so it seems kind of ridiculous to get that serious about a county fair. They are actually one of the more competitive families there as well but they just cant seem to get the purple without a little help. This was pretty obvious last year as we had a shorthorn heifer we put in the crossbred class due to the fact we were holding a two year win streak and this family was tied in with the judge once again, when our heifer was in her class the judge asked my brother "are you sure she's not as shorthorn?" Yeah in a crossbred class he was worried about her breeding. My brother played the game responding " She's out of our cow and a shorthorn bull" . She ended up winning because the judge said she was no doubt the best heifer there, however, when we got to the backdrop to take a picture with the judge I was telling him about her All American status in the shorthorn breed and he shockingly turned to me and said" So she's a shorthorn? Why did you show her as a crossbred then?" Now if his expression doesn't say he lost a little under the table money then I don't know what does. That family, controversially, had reserve supreme heifer that year as well. The moral of the story is this kinda stuff happens every where all the time, but like was said earlier, you just have to learn how to play the game!

What we need to do is ban all shows and just have people judge their own cattle and buy their own ribbons and trophies.

Or just set up some universal criteria to judge.  Some credentials if you will. I've been involved in many various fields and there is no greater seperation of textbook vs real life than in the cattle industry.  Just because mom put you in 4h, bought you a winning heifer, and then sent you to get your animal science degree doesn't qualify you to apply functional beef cattle selection protocol.

I think this has all gone to far. I was not out to have people bash each other by this post. For that I am sorry!! I was simply asking for an opinion on ethics and maybe some suggestions of how other counties choose their judges. I was not trying to knock the judge but we feel he can get political but I can understand with the numbers in his breed.  With the shortage of cattle in this country I can respect any breed of cattle. I certainly know our cattle are not always the best and Clint knows that as he has judged them a few times. Last week our cattle were not the freshes and two were placed appropriately for that. I respected the judges decision but I also respected the judge when two heifers were top of the class and in final drive, so we have been through good and bad and have no problem playing the game and just want a fair shake. I am very proud of my daughters and how hard they work in the spring and summer and will have lasting memories. Yes, if the judge doesn't get changed we will play the game.  Again thanks for the comments.

Suck it up.  Life isn't always fair.  He was asked to judge and that's what he'll do.  If he doesn't like your type of cattle, so be it. Doesn't make him wrong.

If there's a clear cut winner in a judging contest, there should be a clear cut winner in the ring. 

-XBAR- said:

If there's a clear cut winner in a judging contest, there should be a clear cut winner in the ring.

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Please explain, often times it's the very same judges that place the livestock judging classes that are judging in the showring. It's just one man's opinion on that day in a slightly different setting. This statement just doesn't make sense to me.

There is a clear cut winner. The person with the purple banner is the winner. Remember people when you enter a show, you pay for that guys opinion. If you don't like the guy don't go to the show and then complain about it before or after.

Showkidandlovinit - We do have our own breed which is Simmi and Simmi-Angus. We will play this judges game and our cattle always are attempted to look their best sometimes weather plays a part though. Are cattle had a coolbot last year for our fair and we tried just putting them under fans for a couple days prior to the fair and they were not the freshes. We still had Champion breeding with a Simmi heifer and were reserve market with a market heifer. I am very proud if three home raised Simmi and Simmi-Angus we will be showing but we do have one which I call a store bought market heifer. We have very high hopes for her as well as our fall born Simmi heifer. Just hope the judge can see her beautifully clean neck and feminine appearance that is not present in a lot of Simmi cattle. I think everything will work out we will just have to wait and see.

Why is it a good thing if simmi's dont have leather?