crazy heifer/long story

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noel73

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Jul 14, 2010
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23
This is a long story but in order to understand the whole background needs to be told.  In October we purchased a scramble heifer for my son.  We viewed the animals on a Saturday and purchased her in a live auction the next day via the internet.  On at least two heifers in this auction, the auctioneer said “This heifer is not meant for a junior exhibitor, she would not make a good show heifer for a child.”  We stayed away from those heifers.    The next weekend when we went to pick up the heifer she was in a small pipe pen.  My son put a halter on her.  He is 13 and has had plenty of experience with other heifers.    She was quite spooky with him.  At several points during this time the ranch manager admonished several young children (approximately 3-6 yr) to stay away from the heifer.  He told us “she does not like children”.    She went bananas when my son tried to lead her:  bucking, twisting, jumping etc… he held on for a long time and then finally when he was on his knees (holes in the knees of his jeans after this) he let go.  Someone had to go out in the pasture in a ranger and get the heifer they then tied her to the back of the ranger and drug back up to the barn area with a bloody nose and her tongue protruding from her mouth.  Let me just say this – sometimes you just have that gut feeling that an animal is not meant to be a show heifer/steer.  I had that feeling about this heifer, but we had already purchased her in the auction.    The ranch manager told us to take her home and work with her, that the heifer had been raised on the ranch, never before left the ranch etc.  They were nice and told us to call them again if we were still having problems.  We took her home and gave her time to get used to us and the place.  We tied her up several times and tried to brush her etc.  She literally would try to climb the fence she was tied to in order to get away from my children. Once you are in the pen with her she starts circling and doesn’t stop until you are way away from her.  If you get her on the halter she doesn’t just try to run or pull away, she dances on top of you and rears up on her hind legs.  She is totally unpredictable and dangerous.  We spoke with the ranch where she was purchased and told them all of the above.  They wanted us to see if the scramble committee would allow us to switch the heifer.  They would not, the deadline to have your heifer had long since passed.  Since the ranch states that they guarantee satisfaction on each and every purchase, we figured it couldn’t hurt to ask to bring the heifer back and have my son be reimbursed for his money.  That way he could give the $1000 back to the scramble committee and he could use the other $2000 that was his money to purchase another suitable show heifer.  They agreed, but then I received a phone call stating that they want to wait until next weekend for us to bring the heifer back so that they can make sure she wasn’t abused or malnourished etc.  I can assure you she was not.  She has been fed and cared for like my child’s other show animals.  I would have no problem saying go right now and look at her, here is our address, she’s in the first pen with the red barn.  Unfortunately, they are 4 hours away.    What I am wondering is should I get her to our vet and see if he’ll state she is in good condition before we proceed to travel all that way?  I want to cover all our bases.  I am also aware that they don’t willingly have to take her back, but I think that they are a stand up place with good cattle and a good reputation.  I am just so disappointed and that is nothing compared to how disgusted my son is with the whole situation.  He is really disappointed and a little humiliated because at the scramble meeting he had to stand in the middle of the show ring and watch the other kids with their heifers and was told by one person that he needed to just practice more with that heifer.  The mama in me wanted to tell that person what I thought of their methods of including a child whose animal is uncontrollable.  But, I didn’t.  I really want to hear other people’s opinions of this situation.  Sorry it was so long, but it felt really good to write down the whole thing.  Very therapeutic :)
 

willow

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Jan 8, 2011
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308
I wouldn't hesitate to cover all your bases and if you feel that doing that means getting a written statement from your vet I would do so.  It surely couldn't hurt.  However, it sounds like you are dealing with a professional bunch of folks and things should go well.  Best of luck to you and your son.
 

blackdiamond

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Nov 21, 2012
Messages
384
The heifer would have never left the original place had she acted like that, and I was hte new owner...  if they would have not traded her for another heifer, I would have instructed them to take her directly to the sale barn, and send me the check. 

Taking this heifer home, was asking for trouble, what did you expect would happpen? 

Wild and unbroke is one thing, but plain senseless and dangerous is another... 

We had someone do this in our county several years ago as well.  Big name farm donated a registered red angus heifer to be auctioned off at the 4H fair...  long story short, family bought her to build a herd from- she got out, in with the neighbor's cows- and wasn't caught again for another 2 years.  Raised a calf for the neighbors though.. Family finally told the neighbor keep her, and that next year, they quit 4H, all 5 kids... 
 

jbzdad

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Jan 21, 2009
Messages
783
Location
southwestern Kansas
Sorry it is too late... we have 30 heifers in the pasture behind the house that walk up to you and try to lick your back pockets... .. some are pretty good...almost  all would have been much more pleasant for your son to deal with
 

noel73

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Jul 14, 2010
Messages
23
I thought about leaving her there and putting a stop payment on the check that I had given them, but I worried about legal ramifications. 

  All this worrying about taking her back is senseless because after telling my husband that the ranch will take her back, he called the scramble committee and asked about giving back the $1000 and getting her papers to return to the ranch.  The committee person he spoke with said "No, we feel like your son must finish the program because it would look bad to the sponsors."  So, my son will take his heifer to the fair in September and she will be put in a stall for a week (hope no curious little ones get too close.  I need to document that I told them she is dangerous.)  For the next 7 months we will feed her and take care of her and then we will sell her at the sale barn because I am sure by then the ranch won't take her back.  What a disappointment.  We learned our lesson - no more calf scrambles!
 

blackdiamond

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Nov 21, 2012
Messages
384
noel73 said:
I thought about leaving her there and putting a stop payment on the check that I had given them, but I worried about legal ramifications. 

  All this worrying about taking her back is senseless because after telling my husband that the ranch will take her back, he called the scramble committee and asked about giving back the $1000 and getting her papers to return to the ranch.  The committee person he spoke with said "No, we feel like your son must finish the program because it would look bad to the sponsors."  So, my son will take his heifer to the fair in September and she will be put in a stall for a week (hope no curious little ones get too close.  I need to document that I told them she is dangerous.)  For the next 7 months we will feed her and take care of her and then we will sell her at the sale barn because I am sure by then the ranch won't take her back.  What a disappointment.  We learned our lesson - no more calf scrambles!

I would not be happy... and i like to run my mouth- that in combo, the entire board of people involved would hear about it.. and I'd slam on the people who picked this heifer out for such a program until they gave me 2 new hiefers, already broke to lead..

Here's what you do, let that heifer break your sons arm, and then sue their asses...

or send her to town, and find another heifer that looks the same color wise... nobody will know.
 

vc

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Jul 24, 2007
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So-Cal
Well since they can not make an acception, wont let you take her back, do not appear to care if she hurts anyone as long as they don't lose a sponsor, you have 4 choices:1- Take her back to the ranch she came from and get your money back, send them their check, at this point I would careless about their concerns. 2- Find an attorney who will help you put pressure on them and get them to make the right decisions. 3- Keep her and hope no one gets hurt on your place or at the fair. 4-Take her to the next scramble committee meeting and turn her loose on them (might not be the best idea but would propably make a fine funniest home video)

I am not sure how the scramble deal works, we do not have anything like that out here, but if you feel that she is a threat to your sons safety as well as others, I would take her back and get a new heifer to raise. If he cant show her he cant show her. You would not want to have something happen down the road and know you should have done something to prevent it.

I hope it all works out for you and your son.
 

hntwhitetail

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Aug 11, 2010
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1,452
I wouldn't have let her leave my place, only to be sent to the butcher.  Hopefully you can get something worked out and no one gets hurt.  You don't want your kind having a terrible time w/ one.  It should be a learning experience, not a threat.
 

auctioneerajb

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Oct 3, 2011
Messages
17
You say you're still going to take her to the show and pen her hoping that no one gets hurt. You might want to rethink that. If something bad happens at the show and someone gets hurt, it won't be the scramble committee, the selling ranch or the sponsor getting sued. It will be you (and possibly the show committee but I wouldn't count on that). Do you really want to risk everything you've worked for (not to mention everyones safety) just to keep the scramble committee and a sponsor happy? I sure wouldn't! I would either feed the heifer out and ship her or ship her out immediately.
I realize your son is disappointed(went through a similar situation w/ my niece) but it did accomplish 2 things- 1.Taught her how to handle a set back and deal with disappointment and 2. Safety of all is way more important than money.
 

grandchamp58

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Dec 16, 2011
Messages
171
i had a calf like that this year. she would charge you and jumped the fence about 3 times. She is finally broke. They say some take longer than others, but i also believe there are about 5% of all animals that just are not made for showing. Sorry and goodluck.
 

Bilmar

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Sep 26, 2012
Messages
187
sometimes it's better to cut your loses.I had a calf that got loose at a show and I knock a lady down in trying to control it, the committee gave $1000 to leave them alone and get me,3 years later and a week in court it was over,her winning,so think long and hard before you do something you regret. It all sounds good at first but later is when it hurts. I don't understand the breeders and committee, because I know if you do someone right they will tell 1 or 2, but do them wrong they tell a lot of people. Good luck.
 

mccannfarms

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Dec 2, 2007
Messages
243
Location
Falcon MO
Noel73, I am really sorry that you have been put in this situation. I think that the scramble committee is being somewhat ridiculous in this situation. While I can see both sides of the committee's view on the $1000. Giving it back because the calf should have never been in the scramble to begin with or not giving it back because it sets them up with the precedent that in the future if someone decided that they just didn't want to put forth the effort to break the calf (not saying that is your situation at all) and demand their money back. HOWEVER... I see in no way can they force you to retain ownership of this animal and bring her to the show (unless you signed some sort of contract). I mean what would happen if the heifer were to die (or end up at the packing house  ;)  ;) ) or become injured, I just don't see how they can force you to bring a heifer which you rightfully fear could be a danger to anyone who is around her into public and around kids. If this scramble committee is more worried about the image of a donor over the safety of children then there is a MAJOR PROBLEM with their priorities.
 

noel73

Member
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Jul 14, 2010
Messages
23
We have put the heifer out in the pasture with the other cows. She will continue to be cared for, however she will not be going to any kind of function.  It would be dangerous and not to mention cruel to the animal who would spend an entire week circling a tiny stall because she is so nervous and scared.  And by September she won't be so little anymore!  Everyone on here is correct- they cannot force us to finish the project. But because of their rules, instead of getting our money back from the place we purchased her from (they won't take her w/out her papers, which are being held by the committee) we will eventually be out a $1000.- kind of twisted huh?  If we dont exhibit the heifer in Sept. 2013 we have to give them the money then!  I wish I had videos of her behavior to show just how much she dislikes small people!  This board is great and I love all the different opinions. In the big scheme of things all will be okay- she'll go into the pasture and then on to the sale barn and we'll give back the money and all will have learned some lessons!!  Luckily I registered one of Dusty's other heifers for San Antonio and Houston, so he will take his sweet little Chi heifer that he raised and have a great time showing!  If we somehow manage to change their minds I'll keep y'all posted.
 

Gators Rule

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Feb 28, 2011
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Florida
noel73 said:
We have put the heifer out in the pasture with the other cows. She will continue to be cared for, however she will not be going to any kind of function.  It would be dangerous and not to mention cruel to the animal who would spend an entire week circling a tiny stall because she is so nervous and scared.  And by September she won't be so little anymore!  Everyone on here is correct- they cannot force us to finish the project. But because of their rules, instead of getting our money back from the place we purchased her from (they won't take her w/out her papers, which are being held by the committee) we will eventually be out a $1000.- kind of twisted huh?  If we dont exhibit the heifer in Sept. 2013 we have to give them the money then!  I wish I had videos of her behavior to show just how much she dislikes small people!  This board is great and I love all the different opinions. In the big scheme of things all will be okay- she'll go into the pasture and then on to the sale barn and we'll give back the money and all will have learned some lessons!!  Luckily I registered one of Dusty's other heifers for San Antonio and Houston, so he will take his sweet little Chi heifer that he raised and have a great time showing!  If we somehow manage to change their minds I'll keep y'all posted.

No disrespect intended, but I think you're giving up too quick.  Can the father break the heifer?  I had a habit of picking out limos when I was doing the youth shows, and about 25 percent of them were crazy 25 to 35 years ago.    I never had one that I couldnt break, but occassionally I had one that took a LOT of work.  Could your husband break the heifer????

Also, if you don't want to deal with her anymore, simply have a good attorney write a letter demanding the papers back, and that if they do not return them, you will contact the local police department and accuse them of theft.  The attorney would also address the safety aspects of them not letting you out of the "deal" after knowing the heifer was dangerous.  i would NOT give up one way or another...


 

jbzdad

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Jan 21, 2009
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783
Location
southwestern Kansas
I don't know much about the scramble business ... I am sure you made the correct decision not to take the heifer to the fair if you feel she is dangerous... I  would not contact an attorney to try to pressure either the breeder or the scramble committee... you  are going to see these people the rest of your life... once you have stated your case as strongly as you can it is up to them how they respond... so you spend 250 to get your thousand and some bad will in return...was it worth it?

just some thoughts  from an old ,one eyed,  fat man
 

twistedhshowstock

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May 2, 2011
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758
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Nacogdoches, TX
What scramble are you in? I think that committee needs to seriously reconsider how they run things.  The whole purpose of the scramble is to give kids a chance to either show, or be able to show a caliber of calf they might not otherwise be able to afford and to help the kids learn something along the way.  From what you said I gather that the person you bought the heifer from honestly thought she would just be difficult to get started(since they openly said a few of the heifers were not cut out for the show ring personality wise) it also sounds like you have done all you can to safely break this heifer.  She isnt just being stubborn, sounds like she has a just downright mean streak.  The committee needs to realize that they are not only preventing this young man from showing, they are costing him money.  I think the committee should understand that you arent trying to get out of responsibility of completing project since you contacted them about possible exchanging heifers since this one seems unbreakable.  I understand that the committee wants the child to complete the project, but in all bad situations you have to understand when it is time to cut losses and the committee needs to understand that for your childs safety you feel that time is come.  If you are just going to haul the heifer to the sale barn anyway if forced to keep her until September, then I wouldnt give them the $1000, those papers dont mean squat to them.  If you want to get technical, the committee is saying they own $1000 of this heifer until the project is finished, from what it sounds like that is about 1/3 interest.  Since you have tried to amicably end this situation I would hold them responsible for 1/3 of feed, hay, vet, worming, damage she causes, etc. Until September.  Even though they say you owe them $1000 I bet what they would end up owing you would be more. 
This committee seems they are more worried about their(the committee members) appearances than they are about the well being of the child or the purpose of the project.  On another note, I dont know how it is there, but here the kids with scramble projects are required to maintain personal contact with their sponsors throughout the project, if this is the case and you know your sponsor then I would consider talking to the sponser and getting their input.  They may be able to put some pressure on the committiee.
 

everybreedcounts

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Jul 3, 2012
Messages
89
Since it doesnt really seem like theres anything you can do, just tell everybody you know the situation and tell them to pass the word on about how its not a good place to get heifers. basically anti-advertise them.
 

noel73

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Jul 14, 2010
Messages
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I wouldn't want to bad mouth the place we got the heifer from because they are very willing to work with us.  If she had not been a scramble heifer they would have switched her out.  That  is not an option, so they are willing to refund the entire purchase price ($1,000 certificate money and $2,00 Dusty's money).  It is the local county committee that is unwilling to let him refund the money and release her papers so that we can send her back to the ranch where she came from.  Essentially they said if you quit, then in September you owe us $1000 and then we'll give back the papers. 
 

kidsandkows

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Dec 30, 2010
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I think you are teaching your son the right thing and approaching a difficult situation with a very level head considering the situation. I dont believe anything gets accomplished with lawsuits, lawyers, and threats though sometimes its tempting. You said it perfectly it is a learning experience not an easy lesson but lesson none the less. Good job!!!!! Keep on doing a great job raising those kids of yours and have fun showing! (clapping)
 
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