Current Frame Size Trends

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librarian

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I was also curious when you asked this question.
All I can say is they seem to be most interested in short and stout, which is easy with Galloways. I had an inquiry about Galloway cross heifers and from that it seemed like they were looking for something that wasn't going to be real big.
I can't imagine what a Galloway would look like if fed all that grain...
I'd rather see the heifers developed slower for breeding. I guess  a steer is a steer though so it doesn't much matter if they hog out. At least they wouldn't have to get locked in those coolers to grow hair.
I think " the look" came from Galloway in the first place and all this THC stuff could be avoided with a Galloway cross. Hope you get a better answer.
 

oakview

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Show ring frame score trends depend a lot upon the judge.  Most are trying to moderate, but I still see a lot of 1,000 pound March bull calves in Louisville winning classes.

Many believe TH came from Galloways in the first place, both through Improver and Clipper King of Bapton.  Is it non-existent in Galloways today?  If so, any particular method used to eliminate it or did it just gradually fade away?
 

caledon101

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A few decades ago every breed promoted specific advantages, traits and attributes. Simmental was known for maternal traits, WPDA. Steers would go straight from weaning to the feedlot and finish at 14 months which was an attractive option for feedlot operators and producers previously accustomed to grassing and back grounding steers.
Limo's promoted exceptional carcass yield and quality.
Back then, if you put all the breed champions from a major show in the ring together you could instantly identify them.
Today, the breeds have been modified, standardized and all brought into a more consistent common phenotype. A Maine yearling heifer looks very similar to a Simmental and Angus today. Similar frame size and type. I'm not suggesting that this is all bad either. The pendulum has always gone back and forth on type and frame score in the show ring but perhaps we may never again see the wild swing from the belt buckle dwarfs of the 50's all the way to the frame score 10+ that was prized in the early 70's.
It's a lot easier to build them smaller framed and reduce WPDA than it is to go in the other direction. I do wonder if the industry has drifted a little too far left of center. Some of the show calves and yearlings I see today are, in my opinion, becoming too small and fudging birth dates isn't a realistic way to compensate for it.
 

caledon101

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Oakview....this is what the Australian Galloway Assoc policy on TH is:

2.20 Members must notify the Secretary immediately of the birth of any deformed calf, for the purposes of establishing a diagnosis of any genetic deformity. In the event the diagnosis is tibial hemimelia (TH):
a) The Committee must be notified immediately.
b) The parents of any known TH calf must be eliminated.
Any as yet unborn or unrecorded progeny of those parents will not be eligible for recording.

 

caledon101

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7. The following cattle shall not be eligible for registration in the Herd Book of the Canadian
Galloway Association:
(c) animals proven to be carriers of deleterious, genetic abnormalities.
 

Okotoks

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caledon101 said:
Oakview....this is what the Australian Galloway Assoc policy on TH is:

2.20 Members must notify the Secretary immediately of the birth of any deformed calf, for the purposes of establishing a diagnosis of any genetic deformity. In the event the diagnosis is tibial hemimelia (TH):
a) The Committee must be notified immediately.
b) The parents of any known TH calf must be eliminated.
Any as yet unborn or unrecorded progeny of those parents will not be eligible for recording.
When the Galloway breed confronted TH there were no DNA tests available and the aggressive approach was successful in eliminating the problem. Today with DNA tests one should be able to eliminate carriers if a policy is put in place. The best way of minimizing the loss of the good genetics would be to set a date after which any offspring of carriers must be tested and Carrier offspring would not be registered. It should apply to both male and female carriers though or you will never eliminate the problem. It should also become mandatory to test all herd bulls so that before their offspring are registered the bulls are tested free. If fair notice was given then all breeders would be able to minimize the impact of the rule changes.(Example calves born on or after January 2017)
 

caledon101

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Okotoks, that's a very interesting and thoughtful formula you present.
Implementing a policy that negatively affects individual breeders as little as possible seems like a solution that would work best.
The Galloway folks put slash and burn rules in place that practically eliminated the problem within 24 hours! I don't think that's necessary given the modern day DNA tools you refer to. What seems important is that a policy is implemented that assures the gradual reduction of carriers within the breed population. If that takes 20 years so be it. I am not in favour of culling animals simply because they have been identified as carriers. Some breeders have voluntarily taken that action but I wouldn't do that. JMO
 

utshowgirl

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The AMAA has done just this. As of right now no bulls that test Carrier are allowed to be registered. A date has been set for when all females must be defect free in order to register. I can't remember exactly she at the moment but might be Jan. 1 2018. Don't quote that date though.
 

Tallcool1

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I personally believe that we are going to see the steers start to trend up a little bit on frame score.

We can see that the winning cattle are heavier already.  A couple years ago, 1335 was the sweet spot.  Now we see 1350-1360, with a lot of people not being afraid to weigh in at 1375.

The problem that exists when asking a question like this really comes down to ranking the cattle that are at the show on any given day.

You have an idea of what you consider to be ideal.  Now in walks a 1350 pound steer out of the little division, and he is hands down beyond any conversation...the best one there.  Now what?

I think we are going to see them get bigger, because there going to be a lot of bigger ones that are going to be the best ones there.
 

rrblack78

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Keep in mind this a jackpot show, a class of prospects all with a Texas major show ear tag...now pick the winner of this class. It is a reflection of the trends at least in Texas.
 

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Tallcool1

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rrblack78 said:
Keep in mind this a jackpot show, a class of prospects all with a Texas major show ear tag...now pick the winner of this class. It is a reflection of the trends at least in Texas.

I guess I am not sure what you are saying.  Do you believe these cattle are smaller or bigger than in the past few years?

The black one is the one I would use...but it is really kind of hard with that being the only view.

 

rrblack78

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You are correct on your pick of the winner and the steers seem smaller framed to me.
 

RyanChandler

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Tallcool1 said:
I think we are going to see them get bigger, because there going to be a lot of bigger ones that are going to be the best ones there.

I'd like to see them continually getting bigger without getting any taller.
 

RenFarms

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So being a bit of a data person... Is there a frame score number that's considered "center of the bubble" ?  Example, is it a frame 5 that's the target these days, with a half score either side? Just trying to get some direction here.
 

rrblack78

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This was a tiny ring with a big class for a jackpot show. She sent 6 or 7 out so this cut could walk again before she placed the winners. The overall placement was 1. Black 2. Dark grey 3. Yellow 4. Silver. To me the picture gives a good idea of the type and kind people buying and judges are picking.
 

caledon101

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There are so many different environments in North America alone. A good example would be Alberta. The northern areas around Edmonton versus Calgary and further south represents quite a variation in climate and forage. Maybe it's important to have genetics and phenotypes that equally vary? In Ontario we are surrounded by the Great Lakes and we usually have good moisture conditions and lots of grass. The cattle required for the drier short grass country in southern Saskatchewan and southern Alberta might differ from what Ontario and Quebec can best utilize? I recall a friend years ago bringing in a pot load of 1100-1200 Red Angus cattle from the West and it just didn't make sense to me while at the same time he was clipping his pastures twice a year.
I personally don't care how big they are or, how small they are. I care about how good they are. Frame score is something that needs to be considered along with the geographical location and management resources. And it's nice to have various types to choose from; even from within a specific breed.  JMO
 
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