Denver '15 bulls

Night moves is a good bull. He sure rained on my parade at the Kansas State fair. Good luck Stump.

Hi Ho silver, monopoly son raised by kopp owned by rodgers.

Ohio1 said:

Hi Ho silver, monopoly son raised by kopp owned by rodgers.

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(thumbsup)

please someone at the yards this weekend evaluate which is better, Huff'n Puff or Hi Ho Silver......

thanks!

With the exception of his sheath, if you were teaching someone about cattle, which phenotypical characteristics would you point to that would suggest he was a male?

You'd move around and see if he has nuts and then you'd make sure they work by testing semen and seeing offspring in following years. Turn him out with a cow and see if he's interested, but he could still be a male even then (I don't want to offend any gay bulls and degrade their masculinity)

He doesn't have to be ugly headed and Brahman crested to be a male which is what you want to preach. Yes in your program you can breed for (what some consider)!overly masculine appearing bulls but in the clubby market they don't have to be that way phenotypically, or be that way to work and be successful as a bull and investment

You may not value any of these bulls due to their lack of over the top bull headedness, but that won't stop the guy that raises 10 thousand dollar steers out of him in the future

It all depends on your program

Or you could check like they do goats and see if you can stick one probe in when you get behind em or 2 (1 holer or 2) and that would be a pretty safe indicator

Show stopper 95 said:

You'd move around and see if he has nuts and then you'd make sure they work by testing semen and seeing offspring in following years. Turn him out with a cow and see if he's interested, but he could still be a male even then (I don't want to offend any gay bulls and degrade their masculinity)

He doesn't have to be ugly headed and Brahman crested to be a male which is what you want to preach. Yes in your program you can breed for (what some consider)!overly masculine appearing bulls but in the clubby market they don't have to be that way phenotypically, or be that way to work and be successful as a bull and investment

You may not value any of these bulls due to their lack of over the top bull headedness, but that won't stop the guy that raises 10 thousand dollar steers out of him in the future

It all depends on your program

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(thumbsup)

I agree with Showstopper95. They don't need to be sloppy fronted and big bull headed especially in the club calf world. Seems to me that is what you are trying to get at by asking these questions. 

The washrack bull looks like he hasn't approached puberty yet.  I anticipate he will change in the next few months as he matures.

Undermining sexual dimorphism by using these beta males is undoubtedly the glaring culprit behind the disfunctionality -poor fertility most worth noting-  in these cattle. 

If I can make more money on fewer calves taking into account the higher breeding and lower breeding % what does it matter.  It's all about the bottom line. You raise the cattle you want to and can sell. I'll do the same. I won't tell you how to run your cows don't tell me how to run mine.

Doubt I would use him to make cows, but as long as judges pick this phenotype to win steer shows, this is the kind of bull to use for that limited purpose.

ifinditfunny said:

It's all about the bottom line. 

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So virtuous. 

Your defining virtue by breeding cattle that fit your definition of acceptable.  Feeding your children is a virtuous desire as well as self preservation. 

Forgive me for intruding...but I think the macho bull vs the mucho bull argument disregards that generations of drastically different selective pressure have resulted in divergent types.
I was reviewing some stuff about development and trying to understand the"clock model of heterochrony". Kind of tough going..but it deals, in part, with neotony, or sexually mature organisms retaining an immature form at adult size.
It struck me that this is what the selection criteria has been for show cattle.
And, I must admit, for the classic type Scotch Shorthorns.
Not only do we select for immature appearance in show cattle, we accelerate the conditions for nature to move the phenotype in this direction with elaborate and extended care of the animals. (Even to simulating cold climate)
Range cattle are something completely different and can be expected to develop differently, more sexual dimorphism, less pudge, less docility, longer legs, etc. These phenotypes and genotypes exist in different worlds.
In terms of inputs to raise the different types for different purposes and the net profit, I don't know...does it take more time and money to raise a hundred $1000 beef steers, or ten $10,000 show steers?
This has been a mind bender for me...that my original cattle heros were just big babies.

A wise cattleman made an impression on me one day when he was judging a show.  He stressed that feminine cows produce masculine bulls, and masculine bulls produce feminine cows. And he is 100% correct in that line of thinking. That being said, I don't know anyone who in their right mind would use clubby bulls to raise replacement females. Bulls such as the one xbar pointed out have their place, mainly siring clubby show cattle. He's not something I would ever use except to raise show cattle. I agree with xbar that bulls should be masculine, but I use my herd to raise  replacement females. If my goal was to raise show cattle, I would use something altogether different. To each his own and whatever works in their program.

-XBAR- said:

ifinditfunny said:

It's all about the bottom line. 

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So virtuous.

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Baby got back.


Typically the ones with the better bottom lines finance all your government desires.


Down be so down on the butts.

-XBAR- said:

Undermining sexual dimorphism by using these beta males is undoubtedly the glaring culprit behind the disfunctionality -poor fertility most worth noting-  in these cattle.

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Sort of like liberal human males. I agree.

Bill's hair has always been better than Hillary's.


Hillary has the man brow action too.


To me, they resemble show cattle too much.


The males look like females, and the females look like males.