Ethics of Dying Cattle?

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blackcows

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I have been showing cattle for a long time and I know dying cattle has been done for a long time.  Over the years I have progressed from myself showing in 4H to PB shows and now I am back to the point where I have kids that are showing in their first year of 4H.  I realize that many if not most all people dye their black cattle black and I sure have no problem with this as we have also done it for years but I am wondering if it is a widely accepted practice for 4H calves.  For those that have spent a few recent years in and around 4H shows is dying an accepted practice,  is it a gray area that you don't talk about, or even possibly even something not allowed but overlooked? 

BTW: I don't want to give the impression that I think dying is unethical, as I said I know it is a widely used practice and we also dye calves, I was just trying to get an understanding of how it is viewed in the 4H world.
 

cattlejunky

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We do it.  Its alot easier and cheaper than using black finisher all over them on show day. 
 

SKF

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We dye ours and I would say at least where we're from most people do.
 

Jill

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We dye our cattle, they look better and the hair pops better in my opinion.  If you are dying black to look black don't have a problem, if you are dying white to look black that would be where your ethical questions come in.  In our area the calves that are competitve are all dyed, but I would say it is not common practice outside of that.  If you would ask at the county level, my guess is most would be horrified and consider you a cheater.
 

blackcows

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Jill said:
If you would ask at the county level, my guess is most would be horrified and consider you a cheater.

That's my dilema.  Everyone understands that when they are looking at a jet black heifer on the Hill in Denver she is most likely dyed but as you say this would horrify some at the county fair level.  I don't want to do it and then tell my kids we must keep quiet, not really a good example for their first year of 4H.  Does anyone know if there is an official 4H ruling?  We have some people in our county that do it right and would understand and those that don't get it.  These are the same people that want us to go to a no fit show because they think it's not fair that the other cattle look so much better than theirs but also the same people that wean their calves 3 weeks before the show, tie them outside to a fence for a few days, knock the manure off of them with a curry comb and off to the show they go.  I don't have a problem if that is the way they want to do it but certainly don't think we should dumb down the show to accomidate them.

Mike
 

shortyjock89

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I would dye her.  The Freddy 4H'ers that have a problem with it can get over it.  It's not against the rules here, and most people that are at the top end at our county do it (these are the same kind of folks that do well at state fairs and stuff too though...).
 

justme

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Not sure about your local rules, but most say you can not alter her natural color.  Dying black black isn't altering her.  Just don't run around telling everyone about it.  No need to cause more gossip than what already occurs at a local show
 

showsteer09

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We do it all winter but its a state rule that u cant dye at state fair or county fairs.... But that is in ohio winter yes summer no O0
 

CAB

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  Not trying to stir anything up, but this question always intrigues me when it comes up. Where do ppl draw the line on what they will or will not tolerate? I mean , when the ace controversy comes up, look out, but some that are death about ace will dye cattle, and I know that it is a different case or regs if you will but ok, what about "airing" a calf? What will you do to win or not do? I kinda blame the coloring issue on the judges for not being able to see through the color. Not judging, but if a calf is good, he/she is good. I don't care what color they are. That's just me.
 

minimoo38

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justme said:
Not sure about your local rules, but most say you can not alter her natural color.  Dying black black isn't altering her.  Just don't run around telling everyone about it.  No need to cause more gossip than what already occurs at a local show
perfectly said.

i believe that there is no problem dying a black calf blacker. it's just "color enhancement"
 

justme

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Funny thing is though....we had a yearling heifer that showed under the same judge 2 weeks in a row, he just tore her apart.  He was at Jr. Nationals (iwth the redish brown hair gone) and wanted to know why we haven't showed her before this.  Funny thing...same heifer lol
 

kanshow

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It kind of falls into the same catagory at our county fair as no-fit rules.. depends on who's interpretation you go by.  Some of the squeakiest wheels have determined that no fit = no hair products.    They'd sure have a heyday with hair dyes!      Well...  our heifers were 'color enhanced'  for another show and that's the way they are staying. 
 

DLD

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Our rules also state that you cannot alter natural hair color. Under that rule, I see no problem in using black dye on black hair, even if it is sunbleached or dead hair that has brownish tint. Dyeing white legs or flanks or spots black is altering natural color, though.

I'd say 80% or more of the black cattle shown in our county are dyed, and ours is a no fit show (meaning no paint or adhesive). It's just part of fitting cattle, no one makes a big deal out of it either way.

Dyeing, if done correctly, does so much more than just make one look darker. Done after clipping, it blends together the longer and shorter hair plus it gives the hair more body and make it more workable. As a matter of fact, the crystals alone can be mixed and applied without the coloring agent, and used on cattle of any color to add body and pop to the hair.
 

DLD

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kdhansen said:
DLD...What kind/brand of dye is used/preferred?  Any special instructions?  Thanks, Kathy.

We only use Revlon Young Color 2 black. It's getting harder to find - some of the beauty supply stores say they can't get it anymore, but we've still been able to get it at Blue Ribbon Show Supply. Depending on how big the calf is, how much hair they have, and if/how much red tint there is in it, we usually use 4 - 8 boxes per calf but sometimes use 10 or 12 on a really hairy fat steer. Everyone has their own methods, but I prefer to use a regular spray bottle and mix 2 - 3 boxes at a time with warm tap water (it mixes better that way). Spray it on and brush it in with an old rice root brush as you go. If the weather's warm, tie them in the shade under a fan or two, and let them stand for an hour or two - if it's cold, you need to blow on them at least part of that time. Rinse thoroughly, then use show sheen liberally as they're drying. After you rinse the next day, pour about 2" of Downey Fabric Softener in a fogger bottle, finish it off with water, and fog the whole thing on the calf while it's still wet, let it set for 10 minutes and rinse it out, then dry and work hair as usual. Be sure to dye after clipping, and preferably a couple days before you show.
 

kanshow

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We've used Clairol ColorSilk #10 in a pinch.  It's not as good as the Young color for sure.
 
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