first calf heifers

Surely he's not talking about prolapsing

As stated in an earlier post I have kept a daughter and not a prob.
Yes she vaginal prolapse. I wouldn't keep a cow that needs stitches.
For $2.80 I can induce a cow. So I guess I'm not going to be a lot
harder on her for that. More likely due from flushing her then vet accidently
aborting her then moving her from fall to spring herd...not her fault.
Believe me if this cow was a problem she would have been gone!

-XBAR- said:

Surely he's not talking about prolapsing

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Apparently...

A vaginal prolapse usually only occurs when a cow is very late in gestation, and you typically only see it when she's laying down, putting pressure on her rear end. Some are worse than others, and when these cows stand up, everything goes back inside like it's supposed to be. Vaginal prolapse is completely different from a uterine prolapse; it's more of a tendency issue than a traumatic event. Typically, these cows tend to do this with every pregnancy, and the signs or symptoms often increase with age or with each pregnancy. A uterine prolapse, which is usually caused by a traumatic birth--large calf, hard pull, prolonged calving event--IF it's treated correctly, is not likely to repeat.

I would not agree that this cow's tendency is "More likely due from flushing her then vet accidentally aborting her" or that it's "not her fault." I'm not criticizing you for keeping her, but these are things we tell ourselves when we want to justify the decision to keep a cow like that. I've seen it plenty of times before in cows that were never flushed or aborted or suffered any other type of trauma. I don't know exactly how much potential there is for a problem or dangerous situation to occur because of it, but it certainly isn't something you like to see in a heavy springing cow. We've never had one that I considered especially bad about it, and I don't know that we've culled one based solely on that trait, but it definitely doesn't win points. I would be surprised if you have daughters of cows like that who don't develop the same type of tendencies at some point. They may not do it as two year olds, but my thinking is they'll be prone to doing it later on.

Vaginal prolapse is highly heritable.  Took out a whole line of Herefords.

Come to think of it...the cow I told the story about being induced...she was a Polled Hereford. I'm not sure what the pedigree was...that happened several years ago...and I didn't remember this part until the subject of vaginal prolapse came up, but the reason the owner was concerned about her was because she was prone to prolapse and was having some issues. The vet suggested he induce her and the rest was...well...a disaster! In all fairness to those of you who do induce with any success, this vet was a incompetent idiot. I'm still ashamed I stood there and watched him do what he did, even though she wasn't my cow. I still don't think inducing is a common sense management practice, though...not outside of extraordinary circumstances.

leanbeef said:

Till-Hill said:

The ball she has out gets dirty goes back in and thats why it concerns my vet to wait for her to calve so we induce.

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You're saying she has a vaginal prolapse when she gets close to calving?...

I've seen those before. We've had cows in our herd that tended to do that, and I can't say any of them ever had any type of problems. We don't like it, but we've never done anything special to accommodate the females that tend to do it. Except maybe be harder on them for other reasons at culling time. I have heard that this is a trait that is passed on to daughters of cows that have the same tendency, so if you keep daughters of that cow, you might expect the same thing from them.

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My sons cow is a vag prolapse'er (i know that isn't a word so no one brow beat me for not spell checking) and she is young, so it really worries me that she will not be around real long.  The prolapse always replaces itself when she stands, and it isn't super extreme to where it is lying on the ground behind her, however it gets worse every year.  We just let her go and once again just let nature take its course.  As of now it is a non issue when she isn't 8mo+ bred.

That is a new one for me.  I'm one that hasn't heard of a higher risk of infection from a vaginal prolapse either.  Or that is has anything to do with flushing.  I've ran several cows over the years that have had a prolapse.  I don't keep any of their daughters and as long as they breed back and are healthy I don't cull for that problem alone.

Did the vet say why flushing would make her more likely to prolapse?

leanbeef I know of a few horror stories on inductions too.  I remember inducing once in 30 some years and it was when we had a solid AI date and the cow had hardware.  She was going down hill fast and rather than lose than both we went ahead and induced knowing the risks.

maineanjou do you have a calf yet?

Leanbeef and ejoe thats the conclusion the vet came to as she got super fat after being aborted and held over six months. First time she did it when we induced she laid down and had twin Headloner calves like 6 days late. Last year 102 lb Amen. Love the cow and she is intended for when clubby cattle so when playing that game I'm glad that's the only problem I have. She breeds on time and always in top 50% for ww. In closing we have 5 very competent vets 15 miles from me so I put the faith in them and it keeps working.

Till-Hill said:

Leanbeef and ejoe thats the conclusion the vet came to as she got super fat after being aborted and held over six months. First time she did it when we induced she laid down and had twin Headloner calves like 6 days late. Last year 102 lb Amen. Love the cow and she is intended for when clubby cattle so when playing that game I'm glad that's the only problem I have. She breeds on time and always in top 50% for ww. In closing we have 5 very competent vets 15 miles from me so I put the faith in them and it keeps working.

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I'm glad you have faith in them, and I don't mean this to sound overly critical, but I would think they would know what a vaginal prolapse is. And I wouldn't expect him or her to take any responsibility for causing it. I doubt it helps the situation for the cow to be super fat, but I don't think that causes the issue either. Hope she keeps on working for ya!

Well Leanbeef they do know what it is so thats why we induce her to prevent any further problems. It's pretty easy to spend couple bucks on a cow to keep her in production.

One came today bull calf had to pull it wouldnt want it much bigger than it is but besides the other ones still havnt came yet this bull calf has no vigor ive tubed it twice today even added some power punch to the colosterum i milked from the heifer and she wants nothing to do with the calf but atleast the cafs alive. Still a couple more to go hope they go better

maineanjou87 are you in a selenium deficient area?

Till Hill I am not criticizing either.  How does inducing avoid problems with a prolapse?  I may have a few more wrinkles these days but I like to think I can still learn something.

Ejoe I have no idea my vet's thoughts on how it helps but all I remember is that when she gets really close that ball gets really big and covered in her manure and cornstalks stuck to it and he thinks that the sooner she calves the less the risk of infection (maybe retained placenta) will be?

I just do what I'm told and when it works I agree!