Freaky Fronts

Help Support Steer Planet:

RyanChandler

RyanChandler

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Messages
3,457
Location
Pottsboro, TX
What a great looking cow- If you could move her tail head to the rear of her body like it should be, instead of up on top of her spine where it is,  I don't know that you could make one any better. 


As far as the article,  he's dead on-- freaky fronts and tight (weak) hearts are the primary restrictor of show cattle being able to transition into functional beef cattle on pasture.  Their functionality is literally restricted by their phenotype. 
 
justintime

justintime

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
4,346
Location
Saskatchewan Canada
I am in 100% agreement with Kirk on this " freaky fronted" female phenom which really has nothing to do with raising efficient easy maintenance cattle. This freaky fronted issue is probably the most important thing I would like to see changed in show ring cattle today. I have talked to lots of people about this, and most will agree with me, but they say " we have to raise them like this in order for them to have a chance of winning in the shows". To that I say bull molasses!  All it would take to start to see this trend change is a few show oriented people to gather some testicular fortitude and stop breeding this into their show calves. The amount of time an animal spends in it's show career should be a fraction of it's total life on earth, and in order to walk from the show ring to the pasture, and have a lengthy productive life as a brood cow, they have to have some ability to maintain themselves. I don't want to paint all show cattle with the same brush as some are quite capable to make great productive females after their show career is over. Some never will.
 
C

caledon101

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
241
I agree as well. But perhaps it will take a group of respected judges to put their heads together and introduce a revision to show winning standards? It wouldn't be the first time this has happened.
I'm not sure we can rely upon breeders to lead the way on this. They will fall into line and follow once they realize the criteria for winning has shifted.
 
D

dutch pride

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
363
Location
SW Michigan
Wondering what came first, long fronted cattle or the show ring emphasis on long fronted cattle? Brings to mind a story I heard a long time back about Heinz Ketchup. They developed a good formula but it was too thick. So they started an advertising campaign to sway consumers thoughts that thicker was better. So did some folks have long fronted cattle and then try to persuade everyone else this was a good thing by somehow influencing how cattle were judged?

DLZ
 
O

oakview

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,346
We showed at Louisville in 1975 and have been back at least as a spectator if not showing for most of the years since.  I can tell you the freaky fronts you describe have evolved over the years as the result of judges calling the more extended females "feminine" and selecting for it.  As a result, breeders placed more and more selection pressure on "femininity" over the years.  You will see very, very few heifers with any front in any breed.  In my opinion, the freaky fronts you see now are the result of show placings and breeders' response to them. 
 
I

idalee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
188
The same thing is happening on the other end of the show cattle with rump angles of 15 degrees or greater from hips to tail heads.    This is the result of faulty thurl placement and excessively straight hind legs,  both of which result in compromising functional soundness.   
 
C

caledon101

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
241
Can't say I've ever seen one with a neck too short to reach the feed! They all seem to manage to graze without problems.
I suppose there are many definitions of "femininity". Having a live calf every 365 days on average or less and weaning off 50% of her body weight might be a worthy definition??
If looking pretty was directly related to fertility then it's a miracle anyone got those Herefords back in the 50's pregnant.
Long necks look nice. So do straight lines from hooks to pins. Too much set to the hock is actually less of a concern than being too straight and posty.
Little wonder very few show calves return as yearlings to the show ring. And even less come back as cow/calf pairs.
 
justintime

justintime

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
4,346
Location
Saskatchewan Canada
idalee said:
The same thing is happening on the other end of the show cattle with rump angles of 15 degrees or greater from hips to tail heads.    This is the result of faulty thurl placement and excessively straight hind legs,  both of which result in compromising functional soundness. 
Click to expand...


I also agree with these comments. I have commented before that there is no one to blame for many calving issues than those who promote the so called " big hip" in females. Selection for pin bones that are too high compared to the hook bones, is a structural nightmare that produces females that cannot calve properly and oftentimes have other structural issues including the straight hind legs mentioned. Take a look at Brahman cattle or even animals in nature. Jim Williams, V8 Ranch told me a few years ago that Brahman females seldom have calving issues regardless of the BW of the calf.  I have said for many years that too many of our judges as well as many breeders, cannot distinguish between femininity and fraility.  A feminine female does NOT have to be frail, in any regard of her phenotype.
In regards to leaving it to the judges to make the changes, I think it is time that we as producers take more responsibility in our own industry. Many of those selected to judge really have no dog in the hunt, so to speak and many of them are responsible for the separation that has developed between the show ring and the rest of the industry.
 
C

caledon101

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
241
JIT.....I remember driving down the road with Bob Wilson from Transcon almost 30 years ago......super guy..........I remember him saying that producers ought to focus their selection and culling on the economic traits and maybe let the cows tell US what they should really look like!
If culling was strictly enforced re: fertility, low maintenance, longevity, disposition and weaning weights we might be surprised what these cows might eventually look like. Wouldn't look like show cattle that's for sure!
 
D

Duncraggan

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
821
justintime said:
idalee said:
The same thing is happening on the other end of the show cattle with rump angles of 15 degrees or greater from hips to tail heads.    This is the result of faulty thurl placement and excessively straight hind legs,  both of which result in compromising functional soundness. 
Click to expand...


I also agree with these comments. I have commented before that there is no one to blame for many calving issues than those who promote the so called " big hip" in females. Selection for pin bones that are too high compared to the hook bones, is a structural nightmare that produces females that cannot calve properly and oftentimes have other structural issues including the straight hind legs mentioned. Take a look at Brahman cattle or even animals in nature. Jim Williams, V8 Ranch told me a few years ago that Brahman females seldom have calving issues regardless of the BW of the calf.  I have said for many years that too many of our judges as well as many breeders, cannot distinguish between femininity and fraility.  A feminine female does NOT have to be frail, in any regard of her phenotype.
In regards to leaving it to the judges to make the changes, I think it is time that we as producers take more responsibility in our own industry. Many of those selected to judge really have no dog in the hunt, so to speak and many of them are responsible for the separation that has developed between the show ring and the rest of the industry.
Click to expand...
A very experienced fellow I asked to help me last year when I needed to get rid of some cows objectively, due to overstocking on my property, culled some cows on their hook/pin bone ratios as he said cows with high pins are in effect calving 'uphill'.  It made a lot of sense to me!
Ties in with your sloping Brahman rumps JIT.  He asked me to name any antelope without a sloping rump, I couldn't!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Top