Future sire?

I've just spent a fantastic few days driving around and looking at some tremendous cattle. This is one bull calf I saw that I think has a tremendous future as a stud sire. What do you think?

What the hell, here's another one of the top bull calves... ;D

I prefer the bottom calf.

Forgot to mention, top calf is a late August drop, bottom is an early June drop.

I think they are both pretty nice calves.  The thing that jumps at me about the bottom calf is his size and dimension.  How many clubby breeders in the U.S. have June calves on the ground that are that big and growthy???  We hear people all the time talk about the VAST seperation between the commercial/market industry and the show ring industry.  I for one think that what we are selecting cattle on in the showring is a pretty good statement on what the industry looks for as far as design, frame, muscling, etc.  What I think we have lost in the clubby world that seperates us so much from the commercial industry is growth and performance.

That bottom one is a dude. Wondering if he has any Waukaru blood-he looks like he throws back to Rodeo and Hilltop breeding-along with Enticer somewhere back there. Hes got a butt on him that I normally dont see from down there-thanx for the pics. O0

mark tenenbaum said:

That bottom one is a dude. Wondering if he has any Waukaru blood-he looks like he throws back to Rodeo and Hilltop breeding-along with Enticer somewhere back there. Hes got a butt on him that I normally dont see from down there-thanx for the pics. O0

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I gotta agree with you on the breeding look , Mark. I also like how clean underneath he appears. Thats one thing that to me it seems like , is that a good bit of the bulls from down under have too much extra sheath for me. I don't know if it's all the polled breeding or what?

i'm going to agree with the OP.. I prefer the top calf- from a balance, qualty standpoint... sure he's not as big assed as the one under him, but so what?  I think he's more legit- study him through the lines, and compare substance to upper body...  I think he's a better calf... 

the bottom one just looks like a big fat slug with a super milking momma.

I do agree that the top calf has enough muscle mass for me.  But to say that a bull that is fat because his mother milks so well is a bad thing....I gotta disagree.  I realy like that the bottom calf looks like his mother feeds the heck out of him, I hope his daughters will do the same for their calves.  I think the bottom calf is more complete and balanced looking to me.  But it is pretty hard to tell from just a couple pics.  Nice looking pair, just made a little different in kind in the pics.

I think the bottom calf is balanced very well...and to say he is a fat slug, check your glasses man, that calf aint fat, that calf is thick.  Like I said in an earlier post, he has something we are lacking in the US...growth and performance, that calf will probably easily wean at 700lbs,

To me its looks like the bottom calf might toe out pretty bad...

I like them both. I think the first calf is going to be well muscled, if i look at the rump.. there is some width to him there. And the second calf looks like a meat machine.  Wouldn't mind weaning a few more that looked like that myself...

look at the front end on the bottom calf.. shoulder design, neck shape/ length, front feet, etc...  then

not a doubt in my mind that he's the thicker of the pair- at this stage of the game.

Well these guys have sure sparked some discussion! As someone said, they are two different types of animals, and there's also a fair age gap between them. I like these two for different reasons, because they each have something particularly outstanding to offer.

The top calf is just a balanced, complete calf. He's long, deep and wide, and when you get behind him you can see those well placed hip and pin bones which indicate he is going to carry a considerable amount of muscle. He is more what I'd call "old fashioned" in his muscle expression (compared to the bottom calf) - it's there, but, it's not the excessively rounded, extreme type muscle of the bottom calf. If I hadn't posted the other calf, you would look at the top one and see where he carries that muscle right down the lower thigh. He is also particularly soft. The standout feature of the top calf is his flawless structure and phenomenal balance. His front end is so clean- beautiful laid in shoulders, lovely extension of neck and at a young age, a sire's head. Add to this his clean, tight sheath and, though you can't see this in these photos, he already has good testicular development for a calf of this age. I can just see him in 2 years time when he goes to sale - he's gonna take a fair bit to beat.

The bottom calf, on the other hand, is an all out meat machine. They're not the best pics of him as they don't show his good conformation. However I can see how he would appeal to club calf breeders because of his extreme muscle expression. This muscle expression is typical of his sire's calves, as is the the overall depth and capacity of the calves. Calves like this aren't necessarily what people imagine when you tell them the calf is a Shorthorn, despite the fact that as a breed, we have certainly taken major steps in this area. This calf's smooth muscle expression and strong topline make him a standout on his own. Combine that with his tight sheath, beautiful front end and tremendous width of hindquarter, he's going to make a stud sire in his own right.

Both the calves have tremendous potential, it just depends on the programs they are going into and what the breeding objectives are.

mark tenenbaum said:

That bottom one is a dude. Wondering if he has any Waukaru blood-he looks like he throws back to Rodeo and Hilltop breeding-along with Enticer somewhere back there. Hes got a butt on him that I normally dont see from down there-thanx for the pics. O0

Click to expand...

Mark, here's the pedigree of the bottom calf- you'll see that its sire is actually available in North America. I believe there were daughters sold in the All Star Classic, haven't heard how they went.

                DEER TRAIL SAGEBRUSH (P) Red MCAN3890483 
    DEER TRAIL BUCKSHOT 5073 (P) Red MCAN466472 
                LGS SUNSHINE OG21 (P) Red FCAN3874094 
SHADYBROOK SCOTTY 83K (IMP CAN) (P) Red Little White IMP468361 
                WINALOT BIG MAC (P) Roan MCAN453139 
    MISS SCARLET 10W (P) Red Little White FCAN651310 
                SCARLET O'HARA 21S (P) Red Little White FCAN648755 
Sire: BELMORE JACKAROO Z109 (P) (AI) Red IAWZ109 
                CC CUJO (IMP USA) (P) Red & White M83/03697 
    BELMORE WASHINGTON N6 (P) (AI) Red 93/03120 
                BELMORE BLOSSOM 24 (P) (SFA) (DS) Red 88/03431 
  TREVINO ACTRESS 104TH (P) (AI) Red 97/02387 
                SPRYS ROLEX CHEROKEE 2ND (P) (SFA) Red 88/07525 
    TREVINO ACTRESS 97TH (P) (AI) Red 94/02397 
                TREVINO ACTRESS 86TH (P) Red 91/02568 

                MILL BROOK RANSOM G 9 (H) Red & White MUSA3550480 
        CC CUJO (IMP USA) (P) Red & White M83/03697 
                CC CLARK'S BROADHOOKS (P) Red FUSA3691615 
  BELMORE ENGINEER U6 (P) (AI) Red IAWU6 
                BELMORE SQUIRE (P) Roan 89/04498 
        BELMORE ELLE L72 (P) Roan 91/05574 
                BELMORE NANDI 26 (P) Red 89/04480 
Dam: BELMORE ELLE Z136 (P) Red IAWZ136 
                HS RODEO DRIVE 062WR (P) Red MUSA3819643 
        CHATSWOOD PARK WINNING DRIVE (P) (ET) (AI) Red 91X06672 
                WAUKARU CHERRY COKE ET (IMP USA) (P) (ET) Red 88/08314 
  BROUGHTON PARK COUNTESS U059 (H) Red KSTU059 
                BROUGHTON PARK PROPHET 4 (P) (AI) (SFA) Red 89/02628 
        BROUGHTON PARK COUNTESS 35 (P) (SFA) Roan 91/02647 
                BROUGHTON PARK COUNTESS 16TH (P) Roan F86/03093 

thunderdownunder said:

Well these guys have sure sparked some discussion! As someone said, they are two different types of animals, and there's also a fair age gap between them. I like these two for different reasons, because they each have something particularly outstanding to offer.

The top calf is just a balanced, complete calf. He's long, deep and wide, and when you get behind him you can see those well placed hip and pin bones which indicate he is going to carry a considerable amount of muscle. He is more what I'd call "old fashioned" in his muscle expression (compared to the bottom calf) - it's there, but, it's not the excessively rounded, extreme type muscle of the bottom calf. If I hadn't posted the other calf, you would look at the top one and see where he carries that muscle right down the lower thigh. He is also particularly soft. The standout feature of the top calf is his flawless structure and phenomenal balance. His front end is so clean- beautiful laid in shoulders, lovely extension of neck and at a young age, a sire's head. Add to this his clean, tight sheath and, though you can't see this in these photos, he already has good testicular development for a calf of this age. I can just see him in 2 years time when he goes to sale - he's gonna take a fair bit to beat.

The bottom calf, on the other hand, is an all out meat machine. They're not the best pics of him as they don't show his good conformation. However I can see how he would appeal to club calf breeders because of his extreme muscle expression. This muscle expression is typical of his sire's calves, as is the the overall depth and capacity of the calves. Calves like this aren't necessarily what people imagine when you tell them the calf is a Shorthorn, despite the fact that as a breed, we have certainly taken major steps in this area. This calf's smooth muscle expression and strong topline make him a standout on his own. Combine that with his tight sheath, beautiful front end and tremendous width of hindquarter, he's going to make a stud sire in his own right.

Both the calves have tremendous potential, it just depends on the programs they are going into and what the breeding objectives are.

Click to expand...

ahhhmm.  cough.

The first calf is showing a lot of promise for his age. What is his breeding?
The second calf is a meat machine. I'm like Vanridge, I wish I had a trailer load of calves like that to take to town! He should sell well at the bull sales.

Okotoks said:

The first calf is showing a lot of promise for his age. What is his breeding?
The second calf is a meat machine. I'm like Vanridge, I wish I had a trailer load of calves like that to take to town! He should sell well at the bull sales.

Click to expand...

I don't have the dam's breeding, need to check because I can't remember! But here is the sire's pedigree- he is out of one of my old show heifers, who has the quietest temperament.

  DEERHORN CRUICKSHANK 946 (IMP USA) (P) Red IMP4010471 
    THE GROVE KOOKABURRA W735 (P) (ET) (AI) Red BDBW735 
      THE GROVE BLUE DALE 2ND (P) (ET) (AI) Roan 95X02367 
  Sire: BELMORE KERMIT A337 (P) Red Little White IAWA337 
      STONELEA WINCHESTER (IMP USA) (P) Red Little White 91/07335 
    BELMORE WYNONA S49 (P) (AI) Red 97/01917 
      BELMORE FIESTA P49 (P) (SFA) Red Little White 94/01761 
Animal: BELMORE KRAKA D47 (P) Red IAWD47 
      EDEN PARK RED EAGLE U002 (P) (ET) (AI) (SFA) Red EHSU002 
    THE GROVE KASPROWICZ W791 (P) Red BDBW791 
      THE GROVE DALE 39TH (P) (SFA) Red 91/07107 
  Dam: BELMORE KATE A108 (P) (AI) Red IAWA108 
      BROUGHTON PARK RODEO STAR Q59 (P) (SFA) Red 95X01875 
    TREVINO TESSA 28TH (P) Roan BP4U19 
      TREVINO TESSA 24TH (P) Roan 95/02289 

I think your bottom bull calf is showing more maturity at a young age. He looks like he demonstrates more masculine traits than the top calf. He is rounder and more compact in his design but clean made for his condition. Top calf when you analyze his structure looks like he will be an overall larger bull. They look like different types to me. My preference leans toward the second bull calf.

I do not like to make judgement on a picture alone but the 2nd calf exhibits a tremendous amount of shape/ muscle and is very clean.My first impression was however that this calf was a composite as I saw very little Shorthorn breed character.Again its just my impression from 2 pictures.

twistedhshowstock said:

I think the bottom calf is balanced very well...and to say he is a fat slug, check your glasses man, that calf aint fat, that calf is thick.  Like I said in an earlier post, he has something we are lacking in the US...growth and performance, that calf will probably easily wean at 700lbs,

Click to expand...

I am sort of new to the club calf stuff. And I think I experienced the same thing. We have predominantly commercial angus cows and I had a really good angus bull on them for growth. Then last year I bought a clubby type bull that goes back to Irish Whiskey on top and and meyer/angus on bottom. I was pretty pleased with the style, width, hair, and bone he put in to his first calves. But the weaning weights were at least 100 lbs lighter than the year before and the years before that. At first i wanted to attribute it to the different years as far as rainfall , cold etc. But other than the extreme cold last winter. There was not very much difference in our circumstances. Is this something more people experience? Is there really that much disparity between clubby and commercial? I am sure they are going to grow just fine but I was shocked. We will see what next year brings.