Future sire?

OH Breeder · Oct 25, 2011

kidsandkows said:
twistedhshowstock said:

I think the bottom calf is balanced very well...and to say he is a fat slug, check your glasses man, that calf aint fat, that calf is thick. Like I said in an earlier post, he has something we are lacking in the US...growth and performance, that calf will probably easily wean at 700lbs,

Click to expand...

I am sort of new to the club calf stuff. And I think I experienced the same thing. We have predominantly commercial angus cows and I had a really good angus bull on them for growth. Then last year I bought a clubby type bull that goes back to Irish Whiskey on top and and meyer/angus on bottom. I was pretty pleased with the style, width, hair, and bone he put in to his first calves. But the weaning weights were at least 100 lbs lighter than the year before and the years before that. At first i wanted to attribute it to the different years as far as rainfall , cold etc. But other than the extreme cold last winter. There was not very much difference in our circumstances. Is this something more people experience? Is there really that much disparity between clubby and commercial? I am sure they are going to grow just fine but I was shocked. We will see what next year brings.

Not to steer away from the thread at hand....BUT....I am not resource either on this subject. What we have found is some clubby genetics just don't perform as well as your commercially oriented genetics. But if you think about it many times steers for show are held and or pushed for gain. I am not sure when they breed for club type genetics the first focus is on ADG. I have never found my club sired calves to perform as well as my purebred shorties on daily gain.
Not saying ALL CLUBBY genetics either, I am sure there are some that just are as easy fleshing as some commercially oriented sires.( i haven't experienced that), sure I know it could be the cow base. Just an opinion on my part.

coyote · Oct 25, 2011

The bottom calf is sure thick. Is he too thick? I don't see any testicles or is he too young?

thunderdownunder · Oct 27, 2011

coyote said:
The bottom calf is sure thick. Is he too thick? I don't see any testicles or is he too young?

He's got a good package for a 5.5 month old.
A very thick calf- I think the first one will work very well over this one's sisters.

justintime · Oct 27, 2011

I like the first calf the best. For his age i think he shows great potential. I would think that he will be a runawat winner as the best bull of these two, a year from now.

kfacres · Oct 27, 2011

justintime said:
I like the first calf the best. For his age i think he shows great potential. I would think that he will be a runawat winner as the best bull of these two, a year from now.

prob the only post you have ever wrote that I agree 100% with you on... maybe the 2nd?

Okotoks · Oct 27, 2011

I hate clubby bulls and most people- HW is fake & overrated said:
justintime said:

I like the first calf the best. For his age i think he shows great potential. I would think that he will be a runawat winner as the best bull of these two, a year from now.

Click to expand...

prob the only post you have ever wrote that I agree 100% with you on... maybe the 2nd?

I think that should concern you! JIT is a proven seedstock producer, you might actually learn something from his posts.

kfacres · Oct 27, 2011

Okotoks said:
I hate clubby bulls and most people- HW is fake & overrated said:

justintime said:

I like the first calf the best. For his age i think he shows great potential. I would think that he will be a runawat winner as the best bull of these two, a year from now.

Click to expand...

prob the only post you have ever wrote that I agree 100% with you on... maybe the 2nd?

Click to expand...

I think that should concern you! JIT is a proven seedstock producer, you might actually learn something from his posts.

maybe we have completely different program goals and desires?

maybe his seedstock wouldn't work to meet my goals and desires?

I've learned alot of things over the years from old timers- but some times, some have just been full of shit too.

LLBUX · Oct 27, 2011

Those calves look very mature for their age.

I have calves of different breeding that are a little older that do not look as mature as these.

Pix can be deceptive.

Okotoks · Oct 27, 2011

I hate clubby bulls and most people- HW is fake & overrated said:
Okotoks said:

I hate clubby bulls and most people- HW is fake & overrated said:

justintime said:

I like the first calf the best. For his age i think he shows great potential. I would think that he will be a runawat winner as the best bull of these two, a year from now.

Click to expand...

prob the only post you have ever wrote that I agree 100% with you on... maybe the 2nd?

Click to expand...

I think that should concern you! JIT is a proven seedstock producer, you might actually learn something from his posts.

Click to expand...

maybe we have completely different program goals and desires?

maybe his seedstock wouldn't work to meet my goals and desires?

I've learned alot of things over the years from old timers- but some times, some have just been full of **** too.

True enough, but you don't need to be older for that to be true..........
I'm way more likely to listen to someone that has produced cattle that have worked year after year for their customers in several countires, one is never too old to learn. Breeding good cattle and marketing them is normally considered a good thing ???

mark tenenbaum · Oct 27, 2011

Thanx for the pedigree Thunder-Heres my take on the US parts of the pedigree:which really follows what the calf looks like to me.-To begin with:the-Im pretty familiar withthe Deertrail cattle-the Grathwohls are more or less family to me.Almost 21 years later-Nancy still has a couple of mine left. 1

eertrail Buckshot-his sire-Sagebrush-was sired by Deertrail Awesome-who was EnticerxMark 4xHilltop Lancer. Buckshots dam was Hilltop Lancerx Marvel x FULLBLOOD MAINE-and a beutifull female. 2:CC Cujo-purportedly sired by Millbrooke Ransom 2975(as was maybe Millbrooke Mark 4) 2975-was a Cunia-according to a knowledgible well known sale mgr who is now passed away.Sprys Rolex-would go back to HS Rolex.An Enticer(listed earlier,certainly not a pure Shorthorn,probably maine)xMark4-I think. Then you have Rodeo Drive,and alot of what would be very good Aussie lines. The calf looks ALOT like Buckshot,who I saw develope as a calf.Having read the cows pedigree-Stonelea Winchester comes up-Deertrail Awesome -with Enticer yet again. This is by far the cleanest sheathed calf Ive seen with that much Mark4 and enticer-much less Awesome. I really think hed be very usefull on American blood-especially if they had some Trump-Rodeo(Sonny etc) or Improver blood.The combo would change the smaller boned Rodeo look he has-(not going into hair this time).Other than that-I dont see many holes in him.Byland only dreams of calves like that-no amount of CORN would make one with that overall shape-thickness etc. O0

mark tenenbaum · Oct 27, 2011

mark tenenbaum said:
Thanx for the pedigree Thunder-Heres my take on the US parts of the pedigree:which really follows what the calf looks like to me.-To begin with:the-Im pretty familiar withthe Deertrail cattle-the Grathwohls are more or less family to me.Almost 21 years later-Nancy still has a couple of mine left. 1eertrail Buckshot-his sire-Sagebrush-was sired by Deertrail Awesome-who was EnticerxMark 4xHilltop Lancer. Buckshots dam was Hilltop Lancerx Marvel x FULLBLOOD MAINE-and a beutifull female. 2:CC Cujo-purportedly sired by Millbrooke Ransom 2975(as was maybe Millbrooke Mark 4) 2975-was a Cunia-according to a knowledgible well known sale mgr who is now passed away.Sprys Rolex-would go back to HS Rolex.An Enticer(listed earlier,certainly not a pure Shorthorn,probably maine)xMark4-I think. Then you have Rodeo Drive,and alot of what would be very good Aussie lines. The calf looks ALOT like Buckshot,who I saw develope as a calf.Having read the cows pedigree-Stonelea Winchester comes up-Deertrail Awesome -with Enticer yet again. This is by far the cleanest sheathed calf Ive seen with that much Mark4 and enticer-much less Awesome. I really think hed be very usefull on American blood-especially if they had some Trump-Rodeo(Sonny etc) or Improver blood.The combo would change the smaller boned Rodeo look he has-(not going into hair this time).Other than that-I dont see many holes in him.Byland only dreams of calves like that-no amount of CORN would make one with that overall shape-thickness etc.This deal wont let me correct 1: Sagebrush was sired by Deertrail Desperado-full sib to Awesome-2:The cows pedigree etc-belongs to the younger calfs dam.2 good calves altoghether. O0

trevorgreycattleco · Oct 27, 2011

In my opinion, the first calf will be a more all around better bull. I think his females could be as useful as his sons. To me, the second bull calf would make a great terminal bull for use on a set of black cows with those calves headed to the feedlot. I think they both have there place.

Mr Tenenbaum, thanks again for the reply. I always enjoy reading what you got to say. I look forward to someday sitting down over a few coldies and picking your brain. I would give anything to be in charge of the breeding decisions at Byland. I only live about a hour away. They are great folks, just super, super busy. That is one of the prettiest farms I have ever walked.

thunderdownunder · Oct 30, 2011

trevorgreycattleco said:
In my opinion, the first calf will be a more all around better bull. I think his females could be as useful as his sons. To me, the second bull calf would make a great terminal bull for use on a set of black cows with those calves headed to the feedlot. I think they both have there place.

I agree, both calves are different types with different attributes to offer. I'd be happy with either of them!

mark tenenbaum · Oct 31, 2011

trevorgreycattleco said:
In my opinion, the first calf will be a more all around better bull. I think his females could be as useful as his sons. To me, the second bull calf would make a great terminal bull for use on a set of black cows with those calves headed to the feedlot. I think they both have there place.

Mr Tenenbaum, thanks again for the reply. I always enjoy reading what you got to say. I look forward to someday sitting down over a few coldies and picking your brain. I would give anything to be in charge of the breeding decisions at Byland. I only live about a hour away. They are great folks, just super, super busy. That is one of the prettiest farms I have ever walked.Yea: as soon as I can get a little better-Im gonna come through OHIO-and see you. Ive still got a couple left-maybe 1 of these days Ill come up with a bull that will work-Im basically aiming for alot of the same traits.Thanx-MT-one of the few people with Karma under 30-and DAMN PROUD!(that IM AM NOT A COMMON THIEF)

thunderdownunder · Oct 31, 2011

mark tenenbaum said:
-MT-one of the few people with Karma under 30-and DAMN PROUD!(that IM AM NOT A COMMON THIEF)

All the cool people have karma under 30 ! ;D

chiangus · Nov 5, 2011

Bottom one is a tanker, but for some reason I think the top one could really develop into the better bull. I will be interested to see photos in about 6 months.

thunderdownunder · Nov 5, 2011

chiangus said:
Bottom one is a tanker, but for some reason I think the top one could really develop into the better bull. I will be interested to see photos in about 6 months.

I'm loving the variation in thoughts on this one! When I get time I'll post a few more bull calves, just to stir the pot a little more

Future sire?

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