Steer Planet - Show Steers and Club Calves Forum

Steer Planet Chat => The Big Show => Topic started by: mark tenenbaum on July 17, 2010, 01:46:10 PM

Title: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: mark tenenbaum on July 17, 2010, 01:46:10 PM
Somehow I ended up in an obscure Shorthorn site-and a really cool article by JIT: documenting a trip to Scotland came up. Included was a picture of a Royal Ag-champion bull named Cainesbore Thrasher-a 3000 pound plus HAWWWWWG. Wish he would post a picture of that dude. There were also some really good Canadian Et calves -especially the Jit deals-does your capricious and boundless marketing effort  know no boundaries lol O0 (pop)
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: justintime on July 17, 2010, 02:01:37 PM
Here is a picture of Thrasher from the 2008 Royal Highland show where he was Champion.
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: mark tenenbaum on July 17, 2010, 02:09:13 PM
Here is a picture of Thrasher from the 2008 Royal Highland show where he was Champion.
  Thanx-wonder how he moved and what his calves were like.lotta rib. Dont know what the BWs would be-but hed sure bring a clubby one back up without the dairy look. O0
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: justintime on July 17, 2010, 02:14:29 PM
Here is a picture of the reserve Grand at the Royal Highland in 2008. He was the Grand Champion there in 09. He is sired by a bull that resulted from an embryo I sold to Scotland and his dam is also resulted from another embryo I sent over there.

The second picture is a female resulting from an embryo I sold to a well known Angus breeder in Scotland. She is a Byland Gold Spear out of our donor New Beginnings Elsies Jade.  I saw several ET calves from the embryos I have sent there, but I would like to find time to get back again as there are probably over 100 ET born bulls and females from embryos I have sent there now.
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: justintime on July 17, 2010, 02:28:55 PM
I don't know where the pic of the Atlas went to, but I will try to post it again.
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: justintime on July 17, 2010, 02:34:24 PM
Here is a picture of Thrasher from the 2008 Royal Highland show where he was Champion.
  Thanx-wonder how he moved and what his calves were like.lotta rib. Dont know what the BWs would be-but hed sure bring a clubby one back up without the dairy look. O0

Thrasher moved extremely well for a bull this fat. He was one of the fattest bulls I have ever seen.He probably had close to 2 inches of backfat I would guess. I did not see any calves and I did not hear of any while I was there. I am sure there were some someplace. The Brits don't use BWs so it is hard to know how he would calve. They want bigger framed cattle that we do here so they put up with some BW in their calves.
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: Olson Family Shorthorns on July 17, 2010, 02:50:28 PM
So which is worse for reproduction, two inches of fat, or two inches of hair?  Seems like hair that can be shorn off after the show would be the lesser of two evils....now if only we can get folks here to not have BOTH.  I think a bull like him is WAY fatter than anything I've had at my place though.
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: mark tenenbaum on July 17, 2010, 02:54:41 PM
What do they feed over there? He looked pretty heavy O0
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: justintime on July 17, 2010, 06:02:36 PM
What do they feed over there? He looked pretty heavy O0

Lots and lots of grain... barley corn and occasionally potatoes
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: mark tenenbaum on July 17, 2010, 06:49:33 PM
Even though the bull is hog fat-and you can see the maine in his color and shape (sorta like Echo Dale Topdraft) He is also somewhat similar in type to those stout Canadian bulls,including the one in your avatar-not longer and leggier like the younger bull pictured.-who definitely shows some Us (albeit older) influence. O0
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: Shady Lane on July 19, 2010, 11:10:44 AM
Mark,

  Maybe you need to give me a history lesson but I'm currious about your comment of Maine influence in Echodale Top Draft?

By memory I remember there being a bunch of Irish breeding as well as some Dual Purpose influence but I don't remember Maine?

Can you explain?
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: justintime on July 19, 2010, 12:04:42 PM
Jamie... I was wondering the same thing. We both know where Top Draft was born, and I can assure you there was no Maine in him. Just some Irish and some pretty big thick made duals... the big tanks from the past.
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: mark tenenbaum on July 19, 2010, 01:12:42 PM
Deertrail and Aldens bought him and I remember the positive  comments( from Ed and Lawrence) when I first saw him.(They used ALOT of maine in thier breeding-I had my herd at Deertrail ) He looked like a maine but moderate WHICH WAS A GOOD THING.-he changed em like a maine-he had a scary disposistion,and I think he was one of the sleeper bulls there of that  time.He was a changer-and having seen him for several years-he sure didnt look like he had any dual to me.He stoutend up and bodied down alot of dual looking cattle,including a Rodeo Gregg full sister to Shadybrook Traildriver-the resulting (huge boned-maine colored) Top Draft female had this cow (just lost her at 11-heart attack)If I were to guess-the influence may have come the Sutherland (Topsy) G-9 or Millbrook  breeding-it has been hinted and otherwise that he was a Cunia-again-great bull for the times. O0
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: Shady Lane on July 19, 2010, 03:53:04 PM
Mark,

My connection with Top Draft is limited but I'll explain it for history's sake anyway.

Top Draft was bred by a good friend and mentor of mine Reg Daly, just on the Quebec side of the Ontario border here in Canada, Reg owned and operated Echodale Shorthorns with his family near a little town and had a small farm that was mostly rocks, trees and hills.

I went to work at Echodale in 1999, the year I got out of High School and stayed with reg and his wife for a number of years preparing their cattle for their production sale that year. I got to know Reg and his family very well during that time and we remained friends until Reg's untimely passing due to cancer in the summer of 2005.

I sold Reg the last bull he ever bought as well as a heifer calf that he purchased from me in the Toronto Royal sale in the fall of 2004 and delivered those cattle and visited with him and his family between Christmas and New Years 2004, a few days before I moved out west. I miss the nights sitting up at Reg's table drinking tea and talking about Shorthorns as well as the many long distance phone calls (Echodale was about an 8 hour drive from where I grew up) Reg was a vibrant chracter to say the least, I still chuckle to myself when I think of many of his mannerisms and sayings as well as his thick Ottawa Valley accent. Reg was one of the most passionate Shorthorn breeders I ever met and a great friend.

I believe that Reg bought the mother of Top Draft, Sutherland Topsy 700 in a Shadybrook production sale in the late 80's and I can remember as a child some of the bulls that they bought to the Toronto Royal Winter Fair out of her in the early 90's. Top Deck, Top Hat, Top Draft I believe were a few.

I also worked on the farm that owned Topsy 700 until she wouldn't flush or breed anymore and they shipped her around 1999 or 2000? She was a massive bodied cow but would probably be considered to relatively moderate in her frame size compared to many of todays cows, I believe she weighed over 2,100# when they shipped her though.

There were few Top Draft daughters in Canada because he was sold into the U.S to Deertrail etc at a young age but the ones that were here were awesome cows. I remember them as being very stout for the time, big boned and good uddered.

I remember one daughter in particular that was an exceptional producer, she was raised  on the farm that owned Topsy in her final days and we put thousands of miles on dragging that cow and her progeny to shows all over the continent in the late 90ís. She also produced the Canadian National Champion Bull in 1999 when the show was held in Edmonton Alberta. Iím sure that I spent hundreds of hours working on that calf, blowing, rinsing, feeding etc. He had hair to die for as well and it was a pleasure to work on him.

Another  great Top Draft female I remember was a cow that Reg Daly owned, she was a Top Draft out of Shannon Margie 924. She was moderate, sound and perfect uddered. I bought a heifer calf of hers sired by an AKF Board Walk son while I was in University but sadly we lost her at a young age and have no progeny from her.

One of the biggest mistakes I ever made buying cattle was during the Echodale production sale the year I worked there. Reg sold an off age heifer calf out of Topsy 700 and sired by a Dividends Impact son, complete with horns and everything. I thought I would be able to get her fairly inexpensively because she was a strange age for Canadian calves and had never been dehorned etc. I was runner up bidder on her and she ended up going to a breeder in Illinois, not sure what ever became of her but she was a lot like Topsy 700, Stout, moderate, huge ribbed and a perfect even shorthorn roan. I think she would be close to an ideal female by todayís standards but I was young and just didnít have the money at the time, story of my life it would seem.
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: mark tenenbaum on July 19, 2010, 04:01:54 PM
Mark,

My connection with Top Draft is limited but I'll explain it for history's sake anyway.

Top Draft was bred by a good friend and mentor of mine Reg Daly, just on the Quebec side of the Ontario border here in Canada, Reg owned and operated Echodale Shorthorns with his family near a little town and had a small farm that was mostly rocks, trees and hills.

I went to work at Echodale in 1999, the year I got out of High School and stayed with reg and his wife for a number of years preparing their cattle for their production sale that year. I got to know Reg and his family very well during that time and we remained friends until Reg's untimely passing due to cancer in the summer of 2005.

I sold Reg the last bull he ever bought as well as a heifer calf that he purchased from me in the Toronto Royal sale in the fall of 2004 and delivered those cattle and visited with him and his family between Christmas and New Years 2004, a few days before I moved out west. I miss the nights sitting up at Reg's table drinking tea and talking about Shorthorns as well as the many long distance phone calls (Echodale was about an 8 hour drive from where I grew up) Reg was a vibrant chracter to say the least, I still chuckle to myself when I think of many of his mannerisms and sayings as well as his thick Ottawa Valley accent. Reg was one of the most passionate Shorthorn breeders I ever met and a great friend.

I believe that Reg bought the mother of Top Draft, Sutherland Topsy 700 in a Shadybrook production sale in the late 80's and I can remember as a child some of the bulls that they bought to the Toronto Royal Winter Fair out of her in the early 90's. Top Deck, Top Hat, Top Draft I believe were a few.

I also worked on the farm that owned Topsy 700 until she wouldn't flush or breed anymore and they shipped her around 1999 or 2000? She was a massive bodied cow but would probably be considered to relatively moderate in her frame size compared to many of todays cows, I believe she weighed over 2,100# when they shipped her though.

There were few Top Draft daughters in Canada because he was sold into the U.S to Deertrail etc at a young age but the ones that were here were awesome cows. I remember them as being very stout for the time, big boned and good uddered.

I remember one daughter in particular that was an exceptional producer, she was raised  on the farm that owned Topsy in her final days and we put thousands of miles on dragging that cow and her progeny to shows all over the continent in the late 90ís. She also produced the Canadian National Champion Bull in 1999 when the show was held in Edmonton Alberta. Iím sure that I spent hundreds of hours working on that calf, blowing, rinsing, feeding etc. He had hair to die for as well and it was a pleasure to work on him.

Another  great Top Draft female I remember was a cow that Reg Daly owned, she was a Top Draft out of Shannon Margie 924. She was moderate, sound and perfect uddered. I bought a heifer calf of hers sired by an AKF Board Walk son while I was in University but sadly we lost her at a young age and have no progeny from her.

One of the biggest mistakes I ever made buying cattle was during the Echodale production sale the year I worked there. Reg sold an off age heifer calf out of Topsy 700 and sired by a Dividends Impact son, complete with horns and everything. I thought I would be able to get her fairly inexpensively because she was a strange age for Canadian calves and had never been dehorned etc. I was runner up bidder on her and she ended up going to a breeder in Illinois, not sure what ever became of her but she was a lot like Topsy 700, Stout, moderate, huge ribbed and a perfect even shorthorn roan. I think she would be close to an ideal female by todayís standards but I was young and just didnít have the money at the time, story of my life it would seem.///Added a little about Millbrook breeding -Topsy etc-Shcrag and later Cates bought a beutiful T-Draft Dolly female from Deertrail--I have seen the majority of his Deertrail calves-peas in a pod-Im gonna use him again-T-Bone(top-Draft son) produced WHRLs Dolly among alot of good females
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 09, 2022, 09:28:17 AM
Mark,

  Maybe you need to give me a history lesson but I'm currious about your comment of Maine influence in Echodale Top Draft?

By memory I remember there being a bunch of Irish breeding as well as some Dual Purpose influence but I don't remember Maine?  ///// Could have been back in the Alden end not Reg Daileys side Ed and Robert bought him for a reason -I saw him in 1991-or 2  at Louisville -struck up a conversation with Ed and lawrence about how different he was made etc They threw a few hints and we hit it off We also talked about the "GR Exclusive " daughter Exclusives Show Girl- they had there for Harold Hoskins She went right back to Flash (Vistas Sentra 18 U ) And her daughter Top Dradts Show me was an absolute beast -looked more like a maine than anything I ended up later having a herd with them till Lawrence passed in an accident years later  O0

Can you explain?
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: knabe on January 09, 2022, 12:14:03 PM
vistas sentra 20U?
https://maine-anjou.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=119458 (https://maine-anjou.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=119458)

his sire, zta magnum 44 by cunia and horton helena was a very stout bull and prominent for a while in the club calf deal in the 80's.

on the bottom, dollar II was pretty stout, and the feraine cow was supposedly a hand picked cow.

throw in dalton, stout, big boned (in draft pick)

and... looking stuff for this, found a cow i've never seen.

https://maine-anjou.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&search_value=&animal_registration=54&member_id= (https://maine-anjou.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&search_value=&animal_registration=54&member_id=)
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 13, 2022, 08:34:45 PM
Thats Flash-I always get his number wrong-We had a pretty growthy bull out of him -and Ive seen many daughters of him that were called something els He must have been a very big bull Exclusives Carrie was reserve at the national Jr Heifer show but the association removed her because she was actually sired by Flash-She was the second biggest female Ive ever seen A cow called "flashes 2975 " appeared a few years later as the Mother of Studley-who won Louisville and Denver It was her  O0
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: oakview on January 14, 2022, 09:28:40 AM
Maybe it's not such a bad thing the ASA is now requiring bulls to be used for breeding purposes be DNA tested.  I read that  the "mis-sired" rate is about 10%. Evidently was much higher is some herds in the past.  I understand accidents happen, but when it's intentional, is it an accident?  Should we be accusing folks of misrepresenting pedigrees if they're not here to defend themselves?  'Common knowledge' is sometimes not 'common knowledge.'
Title: Re: Got lost in cyber space-up pops JIT
Post by: mark tenenbaum on January 14, 2022, 09:59:22 AM
I used to stay with Harold every time I went to Kansas for alot of years starting in 1991He was a wildman back in the day Harold would laugh when people asked him what the cattle were Tell you they were sired by forget me not or SWINGER (flash) Id say-thats a Flash-hed say I guess anythings possible Ha Ha etc I always wanted to know what flash looked like and he was always pretty vague But I ended up with a pretty good idea what things were  He would not do anything about Carries real lineage-And could care less, thought it was funny. Ed Grathwohl was really mad about that because it involved him too  So Harold (known as Slick ) got sued by the family that paid $30000 for Carrie-THAT WAS ALOT OF MONEY IN THOSE DAYS He took her back is all I know-I saw her numerous times for maybe 8 years I could pick a flash a mile away-Because I had a couple and Deertrail had a few Later I took Carrie and Primos lady to Trans ova and flushed both  O0