Had it with US Forest Service and fire fighting methods

My family and community recently went through the Berry Point fire here in SE Oregon.  It reached over 100,000 acres and destroyed most everything in its path.  All through high school and college I worked as a wildland firefighter, so I have some experience and first hand knowledge of what it takes to fight a fire.  Well I'm here to tell you things have changed.  No longer does the Forest Service "fight" a fire.  They take a more stand back method and use a technique called "backburning".  The idea is to get in front of the fire and burn everything in front of it so the fire runs out of fuel.  When I fought fire, it was a last resort, serious tactic.  Not any more.  I bet 50% of the Berry Point fire total acres burned was backburn by the USFS.
In the aftermath of the fire the damage is incredible.  My in laws land that has been in the family for over 100 years if torched.  Not by the fire, but by the damn backburn by the USFS.  The fire never even got close!!!  They promised to tell us "if" they needed to do it we would be the first to know.  Nope, they torched it, it got away from them and burned up our land.  Our friends are now up to 30 head of cattle burned up or had to put them down as they were burned so bad.  Also the wildlife was destroyed.  Some elk, lots of deer (we personally had to shoot two fawns with their hoofs burned off).
So picture your cows (on Forest Service grazing allotments) trying to escape from the fire only to be met by another wall of flames from the USFS "backburn".  They didn't care.  We had friends literally riding horses through flames trying to push them out.  But it's too late.  And for some the long term ramificaitons are even worse.  Their grazing allotments are gone.  And USFS has policies about how long you have to wait after a fire to let cattle back in; and it's years.  The fire expenditures was reaching 10 million dollars.  They even sent a air tanker from Boise, ID to drop one load of fire retardent that reportedly cost $150,000 for one load.  Yet the USFS could not send in a couple folks to help the ranchers get their cows out. 
This tops it all.  My in laws have already received letters from USFS stating that they need to start replanting trees as soon as possible.  I wanted to write a letter saying, "Hell you are the ones that burned our land and killed everyone's cows - you replant it!"
I believe the government has amnesty and they cannot be sued.  I know there are several ranchers looking into someone taking accountability for the backburns that in some areas served their purpose, but in others did nothting but cause death, destruction, and financial loss.
My friend posted some pics on his facebook page. Not sure if the links will get there.

thank ur environmentalists for this. The USFS is a joke anymore. Teddy Roosevelt set forth the National Forest for timber management (and management means harvesting timber) and for recreational use. Nowadays, timber sales and logging on forest service land is almost at a standstill. This is all because a certain species of bat has been "spotted" in a forest, or an endangered salamander was known to be in a region, and etc , so thousands of acres have been abandoned and deemed "wilderness areas" that will never be managwed again. So the same principals of "let nature take its toll" seems to be going on in the firefighting aspect of the forest service as well. Hate to hear of the devistation to ur family and friend land and livestock. Idk what can be done to twist the system.

I know what you are saying, have seen it far too much. Same has been happening here in Wyoming with all the wildfires we have had this summer. Been a really bad year for fires. I am Volunteer Firefighter and have seen the destructiveness of backburns and they usually do more damage then good, is there a purpose for backburns, yes without a doubt but they are being used to often. Alot of time Forest Service takes a defensive approach with these fires instead of an offensive approach. On the Russell's Camp Fire this summer was just 15 miles south of me and we were on scene well before Forest Service, being on National Forest Land we told the Forest Service what we had and they told us to leave it, it burnt thousands of acres of National Forest until the Forest Service got on scene and started doing any firefighting and they did the defensive fire figting with backburns and putting in firelines with dozers (Which is good). I like using firelines by building them with chainsaws and dozers way more then backburns, the wind picks up and changes direction, now you got another fire out of control with backburns. Sorry for your loss.

I feel for you pard -- we had a range fire here this summer, but it's OPEN range. 1400 acres between three of us, all fought by completely volunteer fire stations out here in Neb. There were cattle on the range, but were all able to get to heck out of Dodge before we lost anything at all. It will take a couple years to come back to where it was. I can't imagine what it looks like to lose all your forest ground, dead trees every where - livestock and wildlife severely affected. Bad deal

I know the government REGULATES policy, but in the true sense of reality -- it is really up to the people on the ground to make those quick decisions. Some times you would get lucky and get some real ranchers in there who know, other times, it may be like your deal - those people who came in there to dela with the fire were following the BOOK. As in any business, the BOOK is only good for refference, I threw the BOOK away in my ET business a very long time ago. Only about 5% of the BOOK is ever really used day to day any way. It takes guts to use your head and instinct -- it only takes a mindless idiot to follow every order thrown at them. Go figure!

Sorry for your loss pard -- life can be brutal at times, and this is one of them. I , as well, would tell them to plant thier own dang trees. And I suppose you were told you had to buy the plants and do all the work as well?? Ha

Best of luck to ya -- chin up

Terry

you can't sue them, you can't vote them out of office, you can't vote people out of office that would rein them in, you can't do anything.

perhaps PETA and the forest dept are run by the same people.

also, we can not log, or cut brush, it must burn.  man must not be allowed to do anything.

And this government is who you want to run our health care system? REALLY?

knabe said:

you can't sue them, you can't vote them out of office, you can't vote people out of office that would rein them in, you can't do anything.

perhaps PETA and the forest dept are run by the same people.

also, we can not log, or cut brush, it must burn.  man must not be allowed to do anything.

Click to expand...

u reminded me of another ironic factor. If obama gets re-elected, good chance people that burn firewood will have emissions taxes to pay for what smoke their chimneys, outdoor furnaces, and etc omit. Yet the allow these hundreds of thousands of acres to burn. the smoke off these fires would probably cover the smoke omissions for household smoke for 10 yrs nationwide.

Put an end to the Forest Service grazing allotments and looks like problem solved.  

If it was private property, you will qualify for the USDA's Livestock Indemnity Program which will provide assistance for livestock deaths that result from natural disasters and the Livestock Forage Program which provides financial assistance for grazing losses due to fire.

They even offer an Emergency Forest Restoration Program that provides payments to owners to restore land damaged by a fire.  Accident will always happen. Fortunately we live in a country where there is a safety net to protect you from being sol in an event like this.

u reminded me of another ironic factor. If obama gets re-elected, good chance people that burn firewood will have emissions taxes to pay for what smoke their chimneys, outdoor furnaces, and etc omit. Yet the allow these hundreds of thousands of acres to burn. the smoke off these fires would probably cover the smoke omissions for household smoke for 10 yrs nationwide.
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If that is true Gargan, that is ridicules. I have not heard this tax on chimneys but have not seen much about politics lately cause it just makes me PO'd and I know who I am voting for anyway (Anyone running against Obama gets my vote). But anyway if that is a real tax they are talking about, who ever came up with that idea needs to be .............................. well I better not say it as this board is open to anyone. The amount of dead trees in the national forests is unreal, is no real surprise when a fire starts that they can't control it, too much fuel for the fire. Wake up people, logging is good for the forests.

First off sorry to hear about your families misfortune, hopefully the area will bounce back fast.

We have our share of fires where I live, So Cal, and I was told by someone who works with cal fire, that back fires are a last resort, and when they do use them it is right before the fire gets to that area, they start it to try and consume the oxygen up to slow down or kill the main fire, that makes since to me. He also said something about having a fireline to control the backfire so it does not spread. It does not sound like your fire fighters follow the same method.

They go to the nearest road and use it for a fireline then torch everything between the road and the fire, sometimes without a whole lot of regard for what is in between.  Can be hard to tell whether the fire would have gone all the way to the back fire origin and beyond causing more damage or if it was a great strategy to stop the run.  Every situation is different, but have heard a number of accounts of back fires that appeared to be unreasonably large.  Being burned out after being droughted out adds insult to the injury.