Hard Whiskey

Does anyone know if he is freezing quality semen yet ? thanks

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this bull. I mean first he wasn't collecting at all, then all of a sudden he collected enough to give to big name people so they could flush there vey productive donors to him, then all of a sudden he isn;t collecting again..... Could it be that they wanted to limit him being mated on cull to common cows, only let the big name people use him, then this spring when 99% of the calves you sell are awesome, they can sell his semen as the next best thing to clice bread.... I know people who do this with some bulls there first year. They will jack the price up super high on semen so he only gets mated to cows that appear to be worth it. That way it really cuts down on bad calves. It just made me wonder how some of the bigger name people are the only one with semen

sizzler14 said:

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this bull. I mean first he wasn't collecting at all, then all of a sudden he collected enough to give to big name people so they could flush there vey productive donors to him, then all of a sudden he isn;t collecting again..... Could it be that they wanted to limit him being mated on cull to common cows, only let the big name people use him, then this spring when 99% of the calves you sell are awesome, they can sell his semen as the next best thing to clice bread.... I know people who do this with some bulls there first year. They will jack the price up super high on semen so he only gets mated to cows that appear to be worth it. That way it really cuts down on bad calves. It just made me wonder how some of the bigger name people are the only one with semen

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If I had anything to do with a bull of this caliber and had the option to allow who I wanted to buy semen, then so be it. It's all about marketing. The problem isn't him being bred to cull cows, the issue is him being used on cows that folks should know going in won't click with his genetics, then slamming him because he didn't work on their cows.

Just my opinion.

showsteernc said:

the issue is him being used on cows that folks should know going in won't click with his genetics, then slamming him because he didn't work on their cows.

Just my opinion.

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you get + karma for that.

sizzler14 said:

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this bull. I mean first he wasn't collecting at all, then all of a sudden he collected enough to give to big name people so they could flush there vey productive donors to him, then all of a sudden he isn;t collecting again..... Could it be that they wanted to limit him being mated on cull to common cows, only let the big name people use him, then this spring when 99% of the calves you sell are awesome, they can sell his semen as the next best thing to clice bread.... I know people who do this with some bulls there first year. They will jack the price up super high on semen so he only gets mated to cows that appear to be worth it. That way it really cuts down on bad calves. It just made me wonder how some of the bigger name people are the only one with semen

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I do understand the logic of this strategy to get only the good cows bred to him the first year, but by not explaining to the public what is actually going on the bull you can also lose sales.  I had planned on using Hard Whiskey on one of my good donors, but with the rumors of fertility issues, I have found another option.  And in the future, will probably not consider using him either.  At this point, I don't care if it was fertility issues or another reason.  Transparency can go a long way in this industry too.

It's easy to see the sales you are making, but it is pretty much impossible to quantify the amount of sales you are losing. Anytime!

he is at rei in stillwater last weekend when we where there.

Sly said:

he is at rei in stillwater last weekend when we where there.

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Pic @ stud?

Sorry I haven't been on steer planet in about 6 months.  If I could figure out how to do a search for a topic called Hard Whiskey I explained a long time ago what happened with him.  I still own semen interest and breeding possession.  First off I guess I'd like to address the comment about only the big names recieved semen.  because i'm an owner and the only semen that I had was the original semen that Hawkeye collected that we recalled because it didn't meet our specs when we did a thaw test.  We thought we were doing the honorable thing once we found out there was a quality issue.  With the quality issue being said obviously there were cows bred to him this summer.  The cows that were bred to him this summer came from this semen that we recalled. So what this means is the semen was good enough quality by Hawkeye standards and in ideal situation it would bred cows.  We just didn't feel that it was flush quality when we had a independant lab check for quality.  We stated from the beginning that we would only sell quality semen.  He has been fighting an infection for some time now and is showing some positive results now. So we hope we can offer some flush quality semen soon.  I guess i'm a little offended by the comments made about the owners by people that don't know the situation when we the owners were originally trying to do the honorable thing in a business that ethics can sometime be brought into question.

Thank you ECC for your response! Let us know when semen is available on him, unlike some individuals in this thread. I would like to use him both in my AI and flushing works on my cows. Thanks again!

ECC said:

Sorry I haven't been on steer planet in about 6 months.  If I could figure out how to do a search for a topic called Hard Whiskey I explained a long time ago what happened with him.  I still own semen interest and breeding possession.  First off I guess I'd like to address the comment about only the big names recieved semen.  because i'm an owner and the only semen that I had was the original semen that Hawkeye collected that we recalled because it didn't meet our specs when we did a thaw test.  We thought we were doing the honorable thing once we found out there was a quality issue.   With the quality issue being said obviously there were cows bred to him this summer.  The cows that were bred to him this summer came from this semen that we recalled. So what this means is the semen was good enough quality by Hawkeye standards and in ideal situation it would bred cows.  We just didn't feel that it was flush quality when we had a independant lab check for quality.  We stated from the beginning that we would only sell quality semen.  He has been fighting an infection for some time now and is showing some positive results now. So we hope we can offer some flush quality semen soon.  I guess i'm a little offended by the comments made about the owners by people that don't know the situation when we the owners were originally trying to do the honorable thing in a business that ethics can sometime be brought into question.

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I do not think people are directly saying there is shady business going on here.  I think it is an issue due to lack of information and experiences from the past.  Rumors do not start on Steerplanet, they are just said out in the open on here.  As you said, it has been 6 months since any real update was given on Hard Whiskey.  Well that is a lot of time for rumors to start flying.  Especially when the last update consisted of the semen being pulled due to quality reasons, then people hearing of cows being bred throughout the summer without the semen being available to the public.  In addition, people have tried to contact the owner of the bull, and they were unable to get a straight answer of the status of the bull.  That only leads to more mistrust about what is going on.

I have already made my semen order for the fall, so none of this really matters to me any more, but even from what you have said above, I would still have a couple of concerns.  First off, knowing there were pre-orders on the bull, why wasn't the bull immediately taken to get collected once there was an issue identified.  Was it the infection that prevented him from being taken back in to get collected, or was it the infection in the first place that prevented the semen from being processed to the highest quality.  Secondly, if infection has persisted through an entire summer and into the fall, I would have serious concerns that there is permanent damage taking place, that may affect the fertility for the rest of the bulls life. 

Again, these would be my concerns if I would still considering your bull and I am not accusing anyone of shady business, but the lack of updates and transparency can only lead to assumptions, whether true or false.

Good luck with your bull.  Hope you get his issues taken care of, and are able to sell lots of semen on him.

ZNAT Hard Whiskey has been at stud probably 7 out of the last 10 months since denver.  the only 3 months he hasn't been there was june july and august.  Must not forget he was just a yearling this year so expectionally high volumes of semen was never expected.  But I guess by your response we should have just sold what was frozen and said it was good and then there wouldn't be anyone out side of the owners questioning shady business.  There was a very long list of semen buyers from denver (over 3000 units in 72 hours + what we sold before denver and after).  Which would was very overhelming surpirse as a bull owner, but at the same time frustrating because we could not provide the quanity of semen that was demanded. we started at the top of the list and started making phone calls to individuals once semen was frozen.  I'm not sure why a semen distrubution company recieved any semen on him when they did except if people weren't needing it right away and he was freezing regularlly we went ahead and sent some out.  The ones that took early delivery had semen on hand and i guess they went ahead and used it before we had any supects of poor quality.  Those individuals we are working with to make things fair.  Sorry for the lack of transparentness but there hasn't been any change since we pulled the semen.  If Hard Whiskey ever does freeze (which we still have hope he does) we will make an owner decission as to how to go forward in marketing him in the future.  It never was our intent to have any of this happen but these are the cards that are dealt and we are just trying to do the best we can and do right by our customers.  If you or someone else thinks they have better ideas on how to handle the promotion and distribution of a bull then by all means i encourage you to go out and raise or buy one and try it yourself.  You never know how you will handle a specific situation until it is at your feet.

ECC said:

  If you or someone else thinks they have better ideas on how to handle the promotion and distribution of a bull then by all means i encourage you to go out and raise or buy one and try it yourself.  You never know how you will handle a specific situation until it is at your feet.

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Well I am sorry ECC if you thought I was attacking your decisions as a bull owner.  My only point was to give the perception of the customers you are trying to reach.  Not very often you get the chance to hear what your customer, or lost customers, are hearing and the information they are using in making their breeding decisions. 

Again, hopefully things work out for you and your bull.  Hopefully someday I can raise a bull worth promoting so I can know what it's like to be you.  BTW, if you can't figure out how to use the search function on Steerplanet, Google is always an excellent option. 

What do PPL think that the Hard Whiskey semen will bring on Griswold's sale next Saturday?

im goin to guess $150/unit

Gargan said:

im goin to guess $150/unit

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Not sure what it will bring but he started freezing hit and miss right before Thanksgiving and this is all we currently have.