Heat Wave Original VS. Heat Wave Clones

Since Heat Wave semen is now getting higher in price, a question I hear a lot is, "What is the difference between Original and Clone semen?" They have the same DNA, and should produce the same quality calves, with the same DNA? Correct? If this is true, then why are people paying the big bucks for Original semen, when Clone semen is available cheaper?

Just a question I thought I'd throw out.

I  think alot of the "original" semen probably is from the clones just my opinion.

ROMAX said:

I  think alot of the "original" semen probably is from the clones just my opinion.

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uh, so they are going to fake the cane codes, lot numbers and change their records?

price.  do you mean from 50 to 65 bucks?

why even worry about breeding him, just look through steers and buy one, they you don't have to deal with females, let alone their carrier status.  what are the odds you can breed a better one than you can buy?  if you want a colored or patterned one, you don't have to have the right cow.

i guess according to knabe, clones arent exactly clones.. ask him ...lol

zach said:

i guess according to knabe, clones arent exactly clones.. ask him ...lol

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the only clones that are clones are split embryo's.  even then, they're not clones. genes are only the pants.

so theres no such thing as an evil clone?

Knabe's right, not all of the DNA come from the clonee, a smaller portion comes from mitochondrial dna of the donor.

But if they say(i knwo not all is true) but i have read on teh clones and dont it say that they have the same DNA makeup so there for would make it pretty much the same thing??????

knabe,

How much original Heatwave do you have for sale for this price?  I'd like the opportunity to purchase it for $50-65 per straw.

price.  do you mean from 50 to 65 bucks?

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More like $200.

CJB said:

knabe,

How much original Heatwave do you have for sale for this price?  I'd like the opportunity to purchase it for $50-65 per straw.

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  You  can't buy the clones for that right now.  I don't believe they're getting much production out of any on them.

RSC

knabe said:

ROMAX said:

I  think alot of the "original" semen probably is from the clones just my opinion.

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uh, so they are going to fake the cane codes, lot numbers and change their records?

price.  do you mean from 50 to 65 bucks?

why even worry about breeding him, just look through steers and buy one, they you don't have to deal with females, let alone their carrier status.  what are the odds you can breed a better one than you can buy?  if you want a colored or patterned one, you don't have to have the right cow.

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I would have to agree with you on this.  As many calving problems that I hear about with this bull I would never submit my cows to that kind of risk.  Plus....I don't think that I have the mental stability to wait for nine months hoping that calving goes smoothly.  I raise purebred Angus, so while every now and then we need to get the chains but that is usually the end of the excitement.  My uncle raises some clubbies and he had a cow have a 150 lb. Heatseaker.  She actually had it!  That was about the only good thing that happened though.  She prolapsed and then bled to death.  Scenarios like that scare me to death!

CJB said:

knabe,

How much original Heatwave do you have for sale for this price?  I'd like the opportunity to purchase it for $50-65 per straw.

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i guess the price listed here is incorrect?

http://sekgenetics.com/listclubcalf.php

heatwave $65.00

never had heatwave, never will.  probably the best thing that can happen to the club calve world is that semen will run out on him and the clones.

Yes, it is, SEK doesn't even have Heat Wave semen in stock.

Steer Boy 101 said:

But if they say(i knwo not all is true) but i have read on teh clones and dont it say that they have the same DNA makeup so there for would make it pretty much the same thing??????

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i can't find the video online anymore at  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/genes/            this might be it, it seems expanded.....looks like there is six parts.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=ghost+in+your+genes++nova&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#

here's some answers.


http://www.fragilex.org/html/methylation.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDF-_qeo4dc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYrQ0EhVCYA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLZB0qZjrew&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfPRPovZUZU&feature=related

genes just aren't as important in the overall picture that we thought.  lots of other things matter too.

We have had to cut as many non-clubbies out as clubbies.

C-CROSS said:

We have had to cut as many non-clubbies out as clubbies.

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castrate, c-section?

C-CROSS said:

We have had t ;Do cut as many non-clubbies out as clubbies.

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That could very well be true.  However, I believe with proper management birthweight is very easily controlled.  I don't know how EPD's are viewed on this forum but I really pay attention to the CED epd.  I think that is more important than the trusty birthweight epd.  Reason being that CED measures the actuall unasisted births.  With the use of epds you also have to look at the accuracy of the animal.  If you use a younger bull the accuracy is usually lower than an older bull.  One example that most people will recognize is Northern improvement...older bull high accuracy to not be a cow killer.   Everyone knows on here the cow plays an important part with pelvic area and birthweight so I'm not going to beat that to death.  Yes, abnormal presentation can give you problems.  That can throw this logic out the window but for the most part I believe this logic is sound.  It has been a long time since I have cut one out of the side of a cow. 

what about an eyeball epd for bw?

knabe said:

what about an eyeball epd for bw?

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I'm up for it.  I'll leave it to you figure out the accuracy rating! ;D