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Offline librarian

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Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« on: December 26, 2015, 03:52:59 PM »
Would someone fill me in on Herbourne. They seem to have had Leader 6 as a walking stud.

But actually I am looking for a photo of Sutherland Titleist if anyone has one.

JPS, the pedigree on this cow made me think of your Clipper Calf.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 04:22:27 PM by librarian »
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Online cflem

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2015, 11:34:12 AM »
I can give you a little information on the 7T's cow in Titlist's pedigree.  Vic was located at Yukon, OK and raised some very good cattle at the time this cow was raised. Herbourne Buster was a bull he owned and used. The Maid of Promise cow family was a Haumont family. Clipper King of USA was one of Vic's herd Bulls  there have been several discussions on here about him. The Frekeba bull would have been a dual bull bred by Fred Bailey from Weatherford, OK. Fred had a dairy and milked Milking Shorthorn cows. The cows I can remember from this herd were more the dual type than dairy type.
I can remember seeing
The
American bull at the OK state fair in 1977 or 78. He was showing at the same time as the PaDo Maxim Adair bull (Skunk) of Don and Pat Stout's. The Stout bull was a national champion bull. He was a President 26A son. Stouts owned 26A at that time.
David Ragsdale at Southerland could tell a lot more about Titlist and his background than I can.

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2015, 11:53:49 AM »
Another side note on Vic Taylor. Vic got part of one of the shipments of Irish Shorthorns. He sold most of the cowherd to Merl Welch of Greenridge Shorthorns in Missouri and built back again. He produced a bull in the 1980's that was named 7T's Greg that he sold to Hoyt's and Granada in Denver in probably 1987. He was a July yearling and was 62 inches tall and weighed 2160. He had never been shown and was reserve division champion in Denver. Greg and a January bull calf was champion pair as well. We wound up owning the bull calf and he was one of the best Bulls we ever used. He was a son of the original Deerpark Leader and out of a Leggs daughter out of a Bonnie Princess cow that was by Super Flag
That Ippensons had won the Jr Nationals with.
I always had a lot of respect for Vic and his ability to match up genetics to produce good cattle. I almost forgot, Greg's mother was a Clayside cow that had a lot of Illawara breeding that Vic had bought because she was three quartered.

Offline justintime

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2015, 12:01:01 PM »
The Herbourne herd is owned by Bill and Isabel Acheson at Somerset, Manitoba. This herd is still producing some good Shorthorns today. The Acheson's like cattle with lots of performance and you will find some big framed very functional Shorthorns there today. 
Kinnaber Leader 6th never ran in the Herbourne herd. He was the herd bull at Pheasant Creek at Lorlie, Saskatchewan for a few years before he was purchased by Thomas Farms, Hartney, Manitoba. He was then sold in a Thomas-Gordon- Draper production sale as a mature herd sire and he sold to Bob Miller, Millvale Shorthorns, in North Dakota.
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Offline Dale

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2015, 12:11:47 PM »
We used both Titleist and Sutherland Titleist 269.  David is selling semen very reasonably on 269--see info on his Ragsdale Shorthorns website.  We much preferred 269 over his sire.  269 was massive, and I'm using him a little bit again.

Offline librarian

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2015, 01:52:03 PM »
Thanks, I sure got that mixed up. I was thinking about Herbourne Buster being a herdsire at 7T's.  I don't know how you guys keep all this breeding straight in your minds.
I was interested in Titleist because I thought he might be more moderate plus Impact always good to have in there for making nice cows.
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Offline Okotoks

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2015, 02:04:50 PM »
Here is the Herbourne bull we used and his dam. We are waiting see how his daughters look when they calve!
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 02:05:29 PM by Okotoks »

Offline librarian

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2015, 03:29:35 PM »
The Ginger Maid cow gets at what I am trying to decipher.
I imagine a knowledgeable person can read a pedigree like reading sign along a trail. The names should draw a map of what the purpose and direction of the breeding was.
This is the bull I am researching, Sutherland 269 364.
What is going on with the Marellan Irish Isobel's and who is DCC Prophet X?
What is the unifying theme on a pedigree like this?
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2015, 03:32:28 PM »
Vic Taylor did own Herboure Buster and used him as a herd sire. Jack Bedwell at Okeene, OK had some daughters of Buster that were the grand dams of some of the heifers they showed in the 80's that won a lot including JB Donna's Bunnie that was grand at the Jr Nationals in the Early 80's.

Offline Doc

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2015, 05:04:11 PM »
 Prophet was a bull Mike Dugdale raised and sold to Hoyt. Prophet was used a lot in Australia. There is a lot of pedigree's from "down under" that go back to Prophet and Tribune.
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Offline justintime

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2015, 07:48:44 AM »
Prophet was a bull Mike Dugdale raised and sold to Hoyt. Prophet was used a lot in Australia. There is a lot of pedigree's from "down under" that go back to Prophet and Tribune.

DCC Prophet is considered one of the bulls that saved the Shorthorn breed in Australia. The breed was losing favor in many parts of that country and when the Prophet calves started to arrive, the breed became very influential again. Prophet was sired by Guiness ( Deerpark Improver 2) and his dam was Nelco Wild Lily 4th. Wild Lily 4 was straight Milking Shorthorn breeding as she was sired by Hilltop Lancer 457 ( a former US National Champion) and her dam was Wild Lily 2D. The Wild Lily family was bred in the Rorvig herd in North Dakota and this herd was probably one of the biggest sets of cows I have ever seen.
I had a full sister to Prophet in our herd, and after retaining a few daughters I sold her to Dean Fieser in Kansas.

I have always thought that Prophet bred much better in Australia than he did here in North America. I do not remember any Prophet offspring here that set the world on fire, but he certainly sired some in Australia that put the beef industry on it's ear, so to speak. I have often wondered that this was mainly because he was such an outcross to Aussie genetics that his calves had additional hybrid vigor.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 07:51:38 AM by justintime »
Experience is what you get when you don't have it when you need it.

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Offline librarian

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2015, 08:39:56 AM »
What was the Hilltop herd like?
There are 76 animals named Hilltop Lancer, almost all sired by Nodak King's Tradition-he must have lived a long time.
I bet those were nice cows.
Check out this pedigree...Blue Rock is even in there.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 08:42:53 AM by librarian »
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline librarian

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2015, 08:48:23 AM »
I have a feeling that if we selected for horns for awhile we might recover some good stuff.
Those pointed forward turning pretty horns, not the thick blunt down turning ones.
Could always poll them again with a red Galloway cross. Just kidding about that last part, but it makes a weird kind of sense.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 09:26:37 AM by librarian »
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline oakview

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2015, 09:28:40 AM »
I assume you are referring to the Hilltop herd owned by Carvin and Gerald Guy in South Dakota.  I believe they used a white Warrior bull prior to purchasing Nodak King's Tradition (Lancer) and several dual purpose cows to add to their herd.  In addition to Lancer 457, they raised Lancer 472 who was shown at the same time as 457 and sold to Heckendorfs in Colorado.  He did quite well as a 2 year old show bull.  The first Lancer offspring that were shown were pure Milking Shorthorns, dual purpose if your prefer.  The Bar D Belle's Winner bull I mentioned in the Innovator thread was later sold to the Hilltop herd.  I had purchased an interest in him from Dale and Richard Studer.  The first thing he did when I brought him home was dig out an old tree stump with his head.  He had stub horns, I assume from a poor dehorning job.  You could not trust that bull.  He could not be chased, you chased the cows and he followed along behind you!  I always carried a club when out in the pasture.  I found out later he had run Dale through a two by six gate.  After he chased me over a gate, I called Rich and told him I no longer wanted the bull around.  He came to get him and resold him to Carvin and Gerald in South Dakota.  He later told me they turned their Blue Heelers loose on him and he never bothered anybody again.  The Guys were founding members of a producers group called Bar 4.  Also included were Noltimeier, Frederickson, and Bob Miller.  They later added two members from Iowa, Jim Scott and Wayne McKee.  The Bar 4 group was quite successful, but I can't tell you what became of the Hilltop herd after that.  I think I recall someone telling me they got into Salers, but I can't remember if that was the case for sure.   

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Herbourne and the dam of the dam of Sutherland Titleist
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2015, 09:48:23 AM »

I was interested in Titleist because I thought he might be more moderate

He might of been moderate for the time but likely still quite a bit larger frame than I think you or I would like.  Here is a Sutherland bull I think could be very useful: Sutherland 813


Also, Okotoks- what is the story with that cow and calf? I remember seeing you post that pic before. 
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